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Old 11-13-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Doesn't matter what the reason is, as long as those products can me made more cheaply in another country people are going to continue to buy them and we will continue to lose jobs to overseas manufacturers.
And the less we make the less we can afford. Then business moves to an even cheaper country to keep profit margins in place while lowering prices.

We indeed are Racing to the Bottom.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:33 AM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,480,300 times
Reputation: 4799
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Doesn't matter what the reason is, as long as those products can me made more cheaply in another country people are going to continue to buy them and we will continue to lose jobs to overseas manufacturers.
They should ask themselves why would the Federal Reserve be slowly devaluing the dollar over the past 97 years. What was the rest of the world like in terms of industrial complexes during and shortly after our industrial revolution? What is it like now?

I seriously doubt some of these folks can even see that the playing field is being leveled for the whole world. They're so compassionate for the "poor" here in America who have somewhere to live, food, a cell phone.. etc for the most part but where's their compassion for the people who live on no more than $10/week? To use their propaganda they must just want those children to die in the streets!
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:34 AM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,950,925 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Believe it because it's true.




As far as your complaints about jobs going overseas if a manufacturer cannot produce things that can compete against the global market here in the US because of the higher costs associated with regulations, higher labor costs and taxes just to name a few they have the choice of moving offshore or going bankrupt. Take your pick.
What do you think that this chart has proven? This is about growing income inequality. Of course income has increased across the board over time, but the issue is that the income growth has increased at a much slower rate for the middle class while it has skyrocketed for the rich. It is disproportionate and the result of greed, not regulation, labor costs or higher taxes. Again, during the Golden Years until the lat 70's, the rich paid much higher tax rates, labor unions were seen a a good thing and the minimum wage was livable. The last time the distribution of wealth was this skewed was right before the Great Depression. The middle class is in debt, not because of their greed but because of the greed of the wealthy who want to keep the wealth concentrated. Conservatives have been in control 20 out of the last 30 years. During the last 30 years, the wealthy had their taxes cut and global outsourcing was encouraged. The choice wasn't to move offshore or go bankrupt, the choice was to move offhsore and pay the CEOs more. That's what they wanted you to think or maybe what you want us to think. Income inequality has grown at a rapid rate. It hasn't gotten us in a good place.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,292 posts, read 20,756,723 times
Reputation: 9330
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The argument you rarely hear is income has increased across the board, the poorest people in this country are much better off than the poorest people 50 years ago. The problem with liberal policies is while shrinking that gap you're also making everyone less properous.

Yes. Krugman and his ilk focus on the gap which has no meaning whatsoever. Narrowing the gap helps nobody if it just lowers the income level of the top.

Raising the income of the low income group definitely helps people.

Krugman is like the man with one arm complaining about his neighbor with two arms. So he cuts one arm off to "narrow the gap". Now we have two people with one arm, so that's equality in Krugman's eyes.
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Old 11-13-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,531,102 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factsplease View Post
What do you think that this chart has proven? This is about growing income inequality. Of course income has increased across the board over time, but the issue is that the income growth has increased at a much slower rate for the middle class while it has skyrocketed for the rich. It is disproportionate and the result of greed, not regulation, labor costs or higher taxes. Again, during the Golden Years until the lat 70's, the rich paid much higher tax rates, labor unions were seen a a good thing and the minimum wage was livable. The last time the distribution of wealth was this skewed was right before the Great Depression. The middle class is in debt, not because of their greed but because of the greed of the wealthy who want to keep the wealth concentrated. Conservatives have been in control 20 out of the last 30 years. During the last 30 years, the wealthy had their taxes cut and global outsourcing was encouraged. The choice wasn't to move offshore or go bankrupt, the choice was to move offhsore and pay the CEOs more. That's what they wanted you to think or maybe what you want us to think. Income inequality has grown at a rapid rate. It hasn't gotten us in a good place.
The calculations for inflation were changed. The reports showed low inflation and continued to show low inflation. Yet inflation rose but we did not notice because getting into debt was made easier so people could still afford their lifestyles based on the value of their home or stocks, not cash in the bank.

The dots all do connect if you give it some thought.
Offshoring started in the 70's.
CPI calculations changed in the 70's and excludes energy and food..two main staples of American lives.

Here's CPI ..blue line is using old calculations while red line is what the government reports.

The government currently reports there is little to no inflation.
Yet a trip to the supermarket should convince you otherwise.

Alternate Inflation Charts

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Old 11-13-2010, 08:02 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,080,948 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Krugman is like the man with one arm complaining about his neighbor with two arms. So he cuts one arm off to "narrow the gap". Now we have two people with one arm, so that's equality in Krugman's eyes.
I'd suggest he also cuts his other arm off trying to make to equalize things. now he's stuck with no arms.

If you want to see an economic chart that will make you gasp here it is:






That is better indicator than any how fast China is pulling ahead of us.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:13 AM
 
3,436 posts, read 2,950,925 times
Reputation: 1787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Yes. Krugman and his ilk focus on the gap which has no meaning whatsoever. Narrowing the gap helps nobody if it just lowers the income level of the top.

Raising the income of the low income group definitely helps people.

Krugman is like the man with one arm complaining about his neighbor with two arms. So he cuts one arm off to "narrow the gap". Now we have two people with one arm, so that's equality in Krugman's eyes.

Well the last time the gap continued to widen at this rate, we ended up with a market crash, followed by a depression. Looks like we're headed down the same road. If this occurs, we all suffer, including the top level. It's not a matter of lowering the income level, it's a matter of increasing the income growth rate among the middle class. Of course, the growth rate would have to decrease among the wealthy for this to happen, but they'd still be wealthy. If you thik the gap is meaningless, think again.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:17 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Believe it because it's true.




As far as your complaints about jobs going overseas if a manufacturer cannot produce things that can compete against the global market here in the US because of the higher costs associated with regulations, higher labor costs and taxes just to name a few they have the choice of moving offshore or going bankrupt. Take your pick.
One can see a decline in income from about 1998 on, a decline that is the more pronounced, the lower the percentile.
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Old 11-13-2010, 08:55 AM
 
27,623 posts, read 21,140,218 times
Reputation: 11095
Corporate Executives And Robber Barons: History Repeats Itself

As America entered the Twentieth Century, Americans witnessed a volatile period of creativity, ingenuity, and productivity. However, the highly ambitious and industrious tycoons of the day were also prone to unchecked and reckless behavior. Tagged with the name “Robber Barons”, Mark Twain aptly summed up their credo as such, “Get money. Get it quickly. Get it in abundance. Get it dishonestly, if you can, honestly, if you must.”

“we have unfortunately found out that this credo is still alive and well, yet far more iniquitous and repugnant. Corporate CEOs have reached new heights of greed, by awarding themselves obscenely astronomical salaries and unwarranted bonuses. Worse still, others have mindlessly sold out American solvency and security by massive outsourcing initiatives to China and India, which has stolen jobs from tens of thousands of Americans, all to make a personal buck, or rather many millions of bucks. Of equal concern, their malignant power has found new ways to more effectively infiltrate and manipulate politics and the media.”

Hence, AIG CEO’s power-managed their political underlings to fork over a 170 billion dollar bail out (of our hard-earned tax dollars) so they could turn around and hand over 165 million dollars to their top executives in the form of retention bonuses, many of whom took part in ruining millions of peoples’ financial investments and lives.

The new age of robber barons mirrors the old, as they all are motivated by greed. This greed has carried over to the politicians in Washington DC, who have all been bought, and this ultimately secures their scandalous seats of power and keeps the unethical wheels of corruption in perpetual motion.”

Corporate Executives And Robber Barons: History Repeats Itself Says Rich DiSilvi by Don Mccauley Icm, Mtc, Ch
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:02 AM
 
27,623 posts, read 21,140,218 times
Reputation: 11095
[quote=Factsplease;16635634]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar51 View Post
What an excellent post! The last paragraph quoted is so disturbing. And the distribution of wealth is truly obscene:




If only people would wake-up. This is something to fear, more than "big government," the president's place of birth or George Soros.
These non issues are the very thing that "entertainment news" which does not remotely resemble actual news, puts out there to divert the real and critical issues. How easy Americans are diverted by Balloon Boy stories.
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