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Yes charity and coddling are indeed two DIFFERENT things. Being FORCED to pay for social programs is NOT charity, it's taxation. You CANNOT force someone to be charitable because they are only doing it because they don't want to be thrown in jail, not because they have compassion in their hearts.
You liberals confuse personal responsibility and charity with social justice and forced charity aka taxation. The two do not mix and never have. Nowhere in the Bible does it say let government take care of your fellow man. It says you take care of your own, meaning YOU personally help contribute to others' well being not by proxy of government
People have always been free to give away excess wealth to the needy. If they had done that there would never have been any need to introduce public welfare programs in the first place
People have always been free to give away excess wealth to the needy. If they had done that there would never have been any need to introduce public welfare programs in the first place
There haven' t been the need for public welfare programs in the first place. They weren't instituted because people had a compassion for others I can assure you that. Government is not this all benevolent force that liberals/socialists like to believe that it is. I believed in it once, which was why I was a Communist in the first place, but I saw through the clouds, and government doesn't have the best intentions of anyone in mind. Look at the Democratic Party here and the Labour/Lib-Dems in the UK. They use welfare and victimhood as a means to establish a reliable voting base
There haven' t been the need for public welfare programs in the first place. They weren't instituted because people had a compassion for others I can assure you that. Government is not this all benevolent force that liberals/socialists like to believe that it is. I believed in it once, which was why I was a Communist in the first place, but I saw through the clouds, and government doesn't have the best intentions of anyone in mind. Look at the Democratic Party here and the Labour/Lib-Dems in the UK. They use welfare and victimhood as a means to establish a reliable voting base
Exactly. They were instituted because of the lack of compassion and help. The first welfare programs pretty much coincided with industrialization when people moved to the cities where they were exploited, the rural family as a safety net was gone...
How am I a victim? I chose to follow God and not wallow anymore, I'm not a victim of anything. I don't see how that statement is polarizing, it's my view, having been on both sides. I explained that. I never said leftists are bad, my parents share the views that I used to have and I don't think they're bad people. I'm not grouping people together, I am stating what my personal experience is and how now, as a Christian, I believe a lot of the ideas on the left go against the Bible. That's it.
Stop making it about me and focus on telling your own story.
I am a Christian, and yes, it has a big effect on my political beliefs. However, I am not a conservative -- I am a progressive moderate (or moderate progressive).
Like Andrea, I was an atheist for many years, then became a Christian when I was in college. Due to my beliefs, I became a conservative Republican, mostly because I was told to by Christian society. I opposed gay marriage, abortion and high taxes, supported war, and cared little about other political issues. I believed that the place of the government was to enforce God's laws, and that aid to the poor was strictly the province of the church. I listened to people like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and James Dobson.
My views began to change around 2008, just after the start of the recession. I saw how Republican policies of bank deregulation and corporate deregulation led to the massive recession. I began to consider the effects of Republican policies on the poor and middle class, and how the lack of regulation and protectionism (which is really a form of neo-liberalism, but something American "conservatives" hold to dearly) led to millions of jobs being shipped to India and China. I also got more into God's word and learned more about Christ's heart for the poor and repentant sinners, and saw how that contrasted with Republican policies on economics, justice and war. Yet, because I was an "evangelical" Christian, I continue to hold to the party line and voted McCain/Palin in 2008.
Later, I read about the healthcare bill that was proposed and saw that, according to beliefs based in Scripture, supporting healthcare for all was the right thing to do. I saw how vehemently conservatives (especially the tea party) opposed it and realized their anti-healthcare stance was rooted not in preserving morality or freedom, but in false information (death panels, etc.) and a desire to keep more of their own money at the expense of others. I contemplated the damage the Iraq War did, how it killed innocent civilians, American soldiers and led to the formation of insurgent terrorist groups, creating more terrorism. I learned of the ugliness of torture and how the Christian right vehemently supported it. I also saw the hatred (based in racism) the right had for President Obama, including questioning his citizenship, even after it had been well-established.
I also searched the Old and New Testaments and saw nowhere where God commanded believers (Israel in the OT and the church in the NT) to force Godly morality on non-believers. In the OT, Israel was God's people and the Jewish law only applied to insiders (Jews). The New Testament commands for Christians didn't apply to the pagans, only to Christians. The early church never tried to gain political power to enforce God's laws on the non-Christian populace, only The goal of evangelism in the New Testament was to make believers out of non-believers, not force non-believers to behave as believers. Scripture even tells us NOT to judge non-believers, but TO judge those who identify as Christian. The religious right usually does otherwise.
So, over time, I stopped identifying as conservative and started identifying as a (progressive) moderate. There was no one day when I woke up and said "I'm not a Republican anymore!" -- it was a gradual process over years of spiritual maturation, introspection, study and just plain "growing up."
I'm still a theologically-conservative evangelical Christian. I'm against homosexuality, but don't think it's the government's place to tell those who don't believe how to live. I think the Christian's place is to oppose gay marriage in the church, not in the laws of the land. I'm against abortion because I believe it is the taking of an innocent life, and the government's place is to protect life. However, I oppose pre-emptive wars (including Iraq), the death penalty, and tax cuts for the wealthy. Because helping the poor, downtrodden, marginalized and penitent was at the heart of Christ's ministry (in both the Old and New Testaments), I support universal healthcare for all, temporary welfare, social programs to help the poor, protectionist policies to keep jobs here, generous foreign aid, job training programs and a justice system aimed at remediating, rather than destroying, individuals.
I don't judge "conservative, Republican Christians" -- a person's political beliefs are between him and God. They will "rise and fall with their own Master." As long as they trust Christ as Savior and Lord, and keep His commands, they are in the family of God. It isn't my place to condemn their beliefs. I don't have the arrogance to believe I'm 100% right. Maybe I'm wrong and the Republicans are right. However, I feel that the religious right has it backwards: Christians should use the government to share the love of Christ, not enforce His standards on those who don't yet know Him, not the other way around.
Last edited by northstar22; 11-21-2010 at 11:10 AM..
There haven' t been the need for public welfare programs in the first place. They weren't instituted because people had a compassion for others I can assure you that. Government is not this all benevolent force that liberals/socialists like to believe that it is. I believed in it once, which was why I was a Communist in the first place, but I saw through the clouds, and government doesn't have the best intentions of anyone in mind. Look at the Democratic Party here and the Labour/Lib-Dems in the UK. They use welfare and victimhood as a means to establish a reliable voting base
The conservatives use their free-market, pro-wealthy policies not to maximize freedom and opportunity, but as a means to establish a reliable voting (and funding) base. Same thing.
How do your religious views affect your political views? I feel like the left and right are divided not just along political ideology but along religious beliefs as well. I'm not talking about just the media saying "the religious right" but the whole premise of many views of the left are contradictory to what a Christian would believe.
I'm in the awkward position of being able to speak on both sides of this topic. For many years, I was not a Christian. I dabbled in Wicca for a time as well as Buddhism but was mostly atheist or agnostic. I was never set on any one belief until last year when I was saved. Before this time, I was a bleeding heart liberal on social issues but had many fiscally conservative ideals (such as my views on welfare, etc.). After my conversion to Christianity, when I started reading the Bible, I slowly got more and more conservative in both social and fiscal viewpoints. Today I am what most lefties consider the typical right-wing nut.
Now, I cannot separate my religion from my politics. To me, God is in charge of everything, in every aspect of every person's life, and we are to do what pleases Him, not what we may think is right and not to separate things and say, for example, "Well, I don't believe abortion is right, but if someone else wants to do it, that's up to them" when the bottom line is that God does not want people to be having abortions, Christian or not.
Anyway, that is my background, please do not attack it. I am just giving my viewpoint since I am asking for everyone else's views on how their religion or lack thereof affects their political leanings.
I voted for somewhat affects my views, but I would have to examine all my political views to see how much they are influenced by my religion. I am more of a social middle of the roader, so I don't know where religion plays into the picture, but certainly some of my beleifs are because of my religion.
Abortion to me, is taking a life, which we all know is against Gods law, but I am also pro capitol punsihment. Many true fundamentalists believe homosexuals are going to Hell, I do not and I beleive in equal right for them. Some think drinking is bad, heck without my wine I would constantly be whining..i don't believe in Adultry, but I don't know if that is my religion talking or just my morals.
I could go on and on, so I really am on the fence.
I am also a bit miffed at the number of people who come to these threads to blasts those who are religious, regardless of their religion. Those who think Christians do not care about babies or health care for those truely in need. Libs are so much more narrow minded than conservatives, it is ridiculous. They lump everyone together.
Nita
For me, one has NOTHING to do with the other. In fact, when a politician starts yammering about religion, i immediately turn the channel and dismiss it. If they go a step further and start talking about how they apply faith to their politics and policy, i immediately dismiss them as kooks and pay them no more mind ever again.
For once, i wish a politician would just say that they don't have any religious beliefs and that they're in fact atheists.
so it sounds like you are one that doesn't have very strong religious views, am I right?
What astounds me the most is that some of the people who pretend to be Christians can accept so easily that many in this society do not have good access to health care.
Boy are you off the subject of this thread!!!
Nita
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Sad but true.
