Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,092,812 times
Reputation: 3954

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Of England, yes, which is what U.S. v. Ark states.
Your reading comprehension erodes by the minute.

Quote:
The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established.
What part of "and in the United States" are you unclear regarding?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:54 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,335,661 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
No, my reaction is that you don't have an argument.

The Constitution requires that the President be a natural-born citizen. But it doesn't define natural-born citizen. No subsequent law or ruling ever directly addresses what distinguishes a natural-born citizen from any other plain, old, everyday citizen that did not have to go through the naturalization process. Whatever evidence you have of what the writers of the Constitution meant when they used the phrase is interesting, but it's not the law. There are other writers who may have broader definitions. Moreover, the Jay reference is actually vague and open to interpretation. The court cases that birthers cite are not en pointe because none of those court cases actually deal with defining "natural-born" citizen, though they might use the term in their rulings. No court has actually defined "natural-born" citizen, because the only office that is reserved for natural-born citizens is the Presidency, and no court has ever heard a case on whether a President is legitimately a natural-born citizen or not. The fact that previous Presidents have had foreign-born parents, and may have enjoyed dual citizenships at birth renders your argument meritless, because the weight of precedence (Previous Presidents sharing circumstances of birth similar to President Obama would be legal precedent.) would outweigh correspondence by political persons at the country's founding, and would outweigh analyses of ours and foreign countries' citizenship policies by non-Americans. You can insist all you want that your definition is the proper one, but it's not the legal one, because it's not incorporated into the law at any point in our history. You can fight to change the law to reflect your opinion, but that won't have any bearing on the current presidency. The birther argument is just simply irrelevant to the facts of the matter.
Well then, let's just have the Supreme Court test it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:56 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,335,661 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
According to the US Supreme Court, it still is.
Are you going to make me have to ask you to define "is"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,092,812 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Well then, let's just have the Supreme Court test it.
Give it a shot. Maybe you can do better than Berg, Kreep, Taitz, Donofrio, Martin, Pidgeon, Apuzzo and Jensen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,079 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13724
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Yes they are.

And the same rule applies.

The same rule that made the child of aliens a natural born British subject in England, makes the child of aliens a natural born US Citizen in the United States.
The same rule? What rule? Cosmic rule? Or what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,092,812 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
Are you going to make me have to ask you to define "is"?
Ask whatever you want. Unlike InformedConsent, I will actually answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,092,812 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
The same rule? What rule? Cosmic rule? Or what?
A natural born citizen is anyone born on national soil who is not the child of a foreign diplomat or foreign army in hostile occupation.

That rule.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 03:03 PM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,335,661 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
A natural born citizen is anyone born on national soil who is not the child of a foreign diplomat or foreign army in hostile occupation.

That rule.
That's reverse impressment, and you know it!

The Supreme Court has ruled on at least a dozen occasions that reverse impressment will not hold water.

"Native Born" is only one element of "Natural Born".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 03:03 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,079 posts, read 44,906,239 times
Reputation: 13724
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
No, my reaction is that you don't have an argument.
In your opinion. But that would make you have to ignore the significance of Jay's letter as the origination of the NBC clause in the Constitution.

Oh, wait... I get it. You're a proponent of revisionist history (in the illegitimate distortion sense). The actual events and facts don't matter. Things are as you 'believe' them to be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-16-2010, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,892 posts, read 16,092,812 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead View Post
That's reverse impressment, and you know it!
"Reverse impressment?" What does that even mean? It sounds like it means setting somebody free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ergohead
The Supreme Court has ruled on at least a dozen occasions that reverse impressment will not hold water.
As far as I can tell, there is really no such thing as "reverse impressment."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top