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Old 12-17-2010, 07:19 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,194,634 times
Reputation: 3696

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Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Yes it's something of a chicken egg conundrum, isn't it? I came to see some wisdom happening in Appalaicha among folks who decided your (general pronoun for western civilization) money was no good to them. I also see the wisdom behind the Amish saying similarly.

I can see the grievance the planet would have with America spawning these transnational corporations. History being honest proves the horn tooting of capitalism has religiously depended on slavery in one form or another. These days we've just relied upon NIMBY imports from people desperate enough to throw themselves under a bus. Is it possible to make an honest living in America, or anywhere, using capitalism? Not when money & markets are ultimately controlled by high stakes gamblers manipulating reality.

I fear we're headed for the same fate as communism. I don't see how it's possible to turn this around save for the law getting real and pointing high treason where it belongs. Through elaborate legal bafflings the law as it stands today only applies to ordinary citizens, not to it's government or elected officials, and not to corporations of largess. Our representative system controlled by propagandists have unofficially reinstated oligarchy. The rest of the dog and pony show is all pretense to occupy people's minds believing they're free.

Sometimes it is better to watch the mansion with rotted foundations burn to the ground, rather than trying to fix it. At some point, the repairs far far exceed the cost of building a new house, and while it would certainly be tough living in a tent while the place is built, sometimes it is just worth it.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,544 posts, read 37,145,710 times
Reputation: 14001
Do you think this just might have something to do with America's financial problems?

COSTOFWAR.COM - The Cost of War
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,209,414 times
Reputation: 16747
The United States government may be sick, but America can recover from it. The bitter remedy is based on facts in the public record, but not in the mind of the public.

No. 1 fact is that the 77 years of "emergency rule" due to the bankruptcy in 1933 has to be addressed. Running on heifer dung and hand waving is no way to run a country... unless it is to run it down.

If the "Constitutional" government will no longer obey the terms of the Constitution, it is no longer lawful, and should be altered or abolished.

Go read Article 1, Section 8 and Section 10, USCON, and note the parts about exactly what is lawful money that pays debt.

Since 1933, no one using Federal Reserve notes has paid debt, pursuant to law. The privilege to discharge debt with worthless notes has been the bane of liberty for 3 generations. The steep price for that privilege was a wholesale loss of freedom, as just about everything suddenly became taxable and subject to licensing (needing government permission).

The irony is that the power to roll back 97% of the government's power and authority is as simple as withdrawing consent - from national socialism and usury. Of course, once 51% leave Socialist InSecurity, the government would collapse, as would the "dollar bill" (insufficient collateral).

Danged if we do, double danged if we don't.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,901 posts, read 3,362,273 times
Reputation: 2975
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Yes it's something of a chicken egg conundrum, isn't it? I came to see some wisdom happening in Appalaicha among folks who decided your (general pronoun for western civilization) money was no good to them. I also see the wisdom behind the Amish saying similarly.

I can see the grievance the planet would have with America spawning these transnational corporations. History being honest proves the horn tooting of capitalism has religiously depended on slavery in one form or another. These days we've just relied upon NIMBY imports from people desperate enough to throw themselves under a bus. Is it possible to make an honest living in America, or anywhere, using capitalism? Not when money & markets are ultimately controlled by high stakes gamblers manipulating reality.

I fear we're headed for the same fate as communism. I don't see how it's possible to turn this around save for the law getting real and pointing high treason where it belongs. Through elaborate legal bafflings the law as it stands today only applies to ordinary citizens, not to it's government or elected officials, and not to corporations of largess. Our representative system controlled by propagandists have unofficially reinstated oligarchy. The rest of the dog and pony show is all pretense to occupy people's minds believing they're free.
+1000, this post should be stickied to the top of the forum...

But you'd have to be pretty blind to not notice just how much America has drastically fallen, not only in terms of its international prestige and economic dominance, but in social and cultural terms at home as well...

I really do think we are witnessing the eclipse and twilight of Western civilization...
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,727 posts, read 6,224,716 times
Reputation: 4257
The sick man of the globe? Not hardly! We may have a very bad cold, or even a touch of the flu, but nothing fatal, at least not yet, although we do need to take some medicine and restore complete health. We are still, by far, the most powerful, prosperous, nation on the planet, by any criteria. We are still the nation that most of the rest of the world wants to come to. Sick? Countless nations would be ecstatic to be as "sick" as America.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:18 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,784,939 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Sometimes it is better to watch the mansion with rotted foundations burn to the ground, rather than trying to fix it. At some point, the repairs far far exceed the cost of building a new house, and while it would certainly be tough living in a tent while the place is built, sometimes it is just worth it.
Neocon policy targeted our economic engines. Since the 70's we've seen a steady gutting out to foreign investors creating artificial reality (artificial GDP) and it shows no sign of abatement. They will continue this endeavor, the benefactors cashing out overseas like rats jumping ship. You cannot eat a bar of gold. Those thinking they're too clever will discover what was traded far too late. The King of nothingness reigns supreme in an imaginary country. His money is no good here.

You may think I've unfairly assigned all blame to neocons, and it's normally a criticism I'd offer anyone, present company included. We've always had problems and always would have to manage them one way or another. The baseline problems have been exacerbated by deliberate undermining of governance. Their philosophy derives it's toxicity from the mistaken belief that governance can be privatized, creating a situation where 2 masters are expected to be served with conflicting mission statements. Prisons for profit have no incentive to rehabilitate or release. The war in Afghanistan is looting the treasury from 2 directions, the troops caught in that crossfire. The troops, through their taxes, are paying for the bullets firing upon them.

The role of government is to provide a stable basis for people & commerce. Commerce derives it's living from price differentials, and in finance, every time money moves. In other words, stability to them is ruinous, but for we the people & small business reliant on price stability to manage their own overhead & long term goals it's pleasant. Stability is dubbed malaise, which is why spoiled boys with short term goals rail at their father. They require drama and volatility because they profit from both extremes. They profit by the volume and velocity increases as well. They are the largest hidden tax on commerce, the commissions paid upfront.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:20 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,784,939 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Do you think this just might have something to do with America's financial problems?

COSTOFWAR.COM - The Cost of War
Absolutely, but republicans see it as a job base for the military industrial complex. Every time a bullet rings an investor gets it's wings. Playing to lose is VERY profitable, is it not?
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:28 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,784,939 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The United States government may be sick, but America can recover from it. The bitter remedy is based on facts in the public record, but not in the mind of the public.

No. 1 fact is that the 77 years of "emergency rule" due to the bankruptcy in 1933 has to be addressed. Running on heifer dung and hand waving is no way to run a country... unless it is to run it down.

If the "Constitutional" government will no longer obey the terms of the Constitution, it is no longer lawful, and should be altered or abolished.

Go read Article 1, Section 8 and Section 10, USCON, and note the parts about exactly what is lawful money that pays debt.

Since 1933, no one using Federal Reserve notes has paid debt, pursuant to law. The privilege to discharge debt with worthless notes has been the bane of liberty for 3 generations. The steep price for that privilege was a wholesale loss of freedom, as just about everything suddenly became taxable and subject to licensing (needing government permission).

The irony is that the power to roll back 97% of the government's power and authority is as simple as withdrawing consent - from national socialism and usury. Of course, once 51% leave Socialist InSecurity, the government would collapse, as would the "dollar bill" (insufficient collateral).

Danged if we do, double danged if we don't.
Social security provides stability and provides a way for ordinary citizens to care for themselves in less than productive years. That's a sincere goal of personal accountability, and a means to achieve it isn't the evil you keep portraying.
What you've got a problem with is what abuses have taken place using those funds. Is it possible for you to direct your intellect at those ABUSES specifically? Go ahead and list them. I'm more than happy to see truth be told, no matter how ugly, I can take it. But you're on a programmed track Jet. You're not talking to anyone anymore. You're selling pre chewed conclusions that most disagree about. Take a giant step back and specify the abuses.
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,188,106 times
Reputation: 6963
The world is a crazy place, America is the intensive ward.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:12 PM
 
11,944 posts, read 14,784,939 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
The world is a crazy place, America is the intensive ward.
Vis insanity is a lie in the mind pestering it unmercifully. Socially induced insanity is warfare declared upon citizens to do the bidding of malevolence. Rowanda used radio shows to whip people into frenzy and incite genocide. Rabid right desperately trying to wrest power for power sake is doing the exact same thing.
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