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I agree with Reagan, let them grind each other into the sand.
Clearly, Reagan didn't walk the talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
Let the neighbors of these countries in the Mid East take care of themselves. They have to live with their neighbors, not us, and if we stick our nose in there, we will be blamed for the eventual return to typical Mid Eastern ineptitude and violence.
Not that would be something new. The real question would be, have we learned from our intrusive foreign policies for over a century?
"The Obama administration on Friday called Egypt's crackdown on protesters a "deep concern" and urged Egyptian authorities to allow peaceful demonstrations and restore Internet traffic and social networking sites."
I'm glad. Now only if we also stay out of designing government for Egyptians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC
The US gov. doesn't want to be on the wrong side..so be on neither side.
Egypt has made the headlines, today. And I have to agree with some of the commentators, even if Mubarak survives this crisis, things are going to have to change in Egypt. Northern Africa's face is changing. And we are witnesses.
Iranian authority is probably enjoying the show. A post-Saddam Iraq was a good news to them, and the uprising in these countries is definitely bringing fond memories of 1979 to the theocracy.
Turkey should be fine. It is a fairly progressive society, one that is likely to stay out of this, one way or the other. Saudis should be fine as well but for different reasons. Although, I'm sure they will be watching the future of governance and act accordingly. The wider the smile from Iranian government, the more to worry for the Saudis. Their best bet may be to start distancing themselves from the USA.
I just got off work a bit ago so haven't watched any TV yet, but I did hop online and scan a few sites like RT, Al Jazeera, BBC, Mosaic, etc... and there is a lot of "chatter" from Muslim counties chiming in on events taking place. The only thing is that we in the United States do not get to see it unless you take a pro-active position and go seek the information out. Watching CNN, Fox or MSNBC, let alone the usual ABC, CBS, NBC stuff, it is all Middle East "from our own point of view" and not so much the views of those living there.
Amazing the difference in opinion and view.
Side note, I still think Turkey is going to emerge as one of the biggest winners after the dust settles, as after all they are considered "Europe" and are already a member of NATO, are a fairly secular and stable country that could (and I stress, "could) be a model for others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan
And none seem to be offering military support either; haven't read anything to indicate that.
Probably the smartest thing they could do is often saying nothing is better than saying something stupid. Besides, many of the nations we might be at odds with have a boatload of their own internal problems and concerns to contend with and unlike the United States, don't exactly have the ability to intervene so readily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
I agree with Reagan, let them grind each other into the sand. If the US sticks their nose in the Mid East, one side or the other will blame us for the disastrous state of affairs they themselves created. If the side we opposed loses in the final outcome, they will blame us and recruit terrorists to attack our country and our citizens. If the side we backed ends up in power, and since its the mid East, there will be strife and violence, we will be blamed for anything and everything. Its a lose-lose.
In many ways, this is something I've been saying for a long time, it is lose lose for the USA to remain in that hell hole. While I'm all in favor of doing business with even these nuts, as after all they do have a resource we depend upon and I wish it weren't so but it is what it is. But having so many boots on the ground makes us the ones being ground into the sand and I am just of the opinion that it isnt worth so many American lives to try and raise these folks out of darkness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny
What percentage of Americans have even heard of Mohamed Mossadeq?
Perhaps only one more after reading this thread, but isn't that an improvement?
"The Obama administration on Friday called Egypt's crackdown on protesters a "deep concern" and urged Egyptian authorities to allow peaceful demonstrations and restore Internet traffic and social networking sites."
HappyT, well I suspect everyone, us, them, this country and that are all doing the same thing. Judging by these statements, we don't know exactly how things are going to turn out and who is going to be left standing at the end of the day and I am willing to bet that even many of the nations in the region are wondering the same. Sometimes once the rocks begin to be thrown, all one can do is sit back and see what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
You know, I've been following this thread and trying to formulate a suitable, thoughtful reply. You said it all in the above quote, I have nothing to contribute that would add to it.
If we had spent a fraction of the money developing our domestic oil supplies that we did in the ME, we might not be dependant on them.
Well as silly as it may sound, I want to see little American babies grow up to have to face the tough choice of being an artist or a scientist or a business owner or an engineer creating the future, instead of having to choose between some second rate service based job competing with India or China or to fight in some far off desert to protect the interest of some foreign conglomerate that provides us with a 19th century energy source feeding a 20th century style of living. I think we can do better.
Egypt has made the headlines, today. And I have to agree with some of the commentators, even if Mubarak survives this crisis, things are going to have to change in Egypt. Northern Africa's face is changing. And we are witnesses.
I think at the moment, we're all kind of just spectators and what a show huh! Seriously, what is taking place is huge and will have repercussions lasting well after I'm dead and dust. Pretty amazing watching this kind of history isn't it.
But as Bush's support for the Cedar Revolution in Lebanon and for a democratic Palestinian state showed, he was defending self-government, not the use of force.
"Sixty years of Western nations excusing and accommodating the lack of freedom in the Middle East did nothing to make us safe - because in the long run, stability cannot be purchased at the expense of liberty," Bush said. "As long as the Middle East remains a place where freedom does not flourish, it will remain a place of stagnation, resentment and violence ready for export."
He was constantly, adamantly pro-democracy in the Mid east.
So no, this wasn't a nightmare for some, those who long ago called for democracy in this region.
Jordan also protested today. Same economic story as to why..here's the interesting bit:
Thousands protest in Jordan - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
"Members of the Islamic Action Front, the political wing of the Muslim Brotherhood and Jordan's largest opposition party, swelled the ranks of the demonstrators, massing outside the al-Husseini mosque in Amman and filling the downtown streets with their prayer lines."
Are We Witnessing the Start of a Global Revolution?
"We have now reached the point where the global economic crisis has continued beyond the two-year mark. The social repercussions are starting to be felt – globally – as a result of the crisis and the coordinated responses to it. Since the global economic crisis hit the ‘Third World’ the hardest, the social and political ramifications will be felt there first. In the context of the current record-breaking hikes in the cost of food, food riots will spread around the world as they did in 2007 and 2008, just prior to the outbreak of the economic crisis. This time, however, things are much worse economically, much more desperate socially, and much more oppressive politically.
This rising discontent will spread from the developing world to the comfort of our own homes in the West."
anyone who thinks the middle east is going to be democratic is delusional.
The only reason they are playing our game is because the United States is influencing this. The second our influence is gone, they will revert to their preferred system of government.
20yrsinBranson
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