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So you think dictatorships are what freedom-loving Americans should support in the rest of the world?
I expected a foolish reply like this..
What we should have been do a long long time ago was to slowly remove this guy and find a moderate leader helpful to Egypts people and our interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC
Could you post any proof that the protests are "all orchestrated by radical muslims"?
I can post links and then you would just post links contradicting them..so whats the point.
Whether this annoys you or not,it is none of your business,or the USA's.
Annoys me,thats funny...
Could anyone explain what were the negative effects of the Iranian Revolution to the USA? Oboy
People like you two and others I find odd..
You people I think "want" to live in a utopia type world but I am sorry to break the news....There is no such thing.
Bad things happen in this world and sorry to info you, the world is filled with really bad people, I just dont think you people get it.
People have been killing each other since time began.....IT WILL NEVER STOP!
The world sees us as weak right now do to this fool of a Pres. who is forever give contradictory answers.
Are the founding principles of the USA worth supporting or not?
It appears to me,a lot of posters think not.
Or at least not if it could be inconvenient to the USA.
Strange.
I still can't believe that you are so blind to what is going on. This is the doings of the far left and Obama's minions. This is nowhere NEAR a grassroots thing. The people are going to get duped and end up with a government that the RADICALS want, not what the people want. I can't believe that you fall for all the rpopaganda like you do. I thought you were smarter than that.
Are the founding principles of the USA worth supporting or not?
It appears to me,a lot of posters think not.
Or at least not if it could be inconvenient to the USA.
Strange.
Oz, considering how many times we have argued at odds, I am with you on this one. For the life of me I am struggling to get my mind around this as it seems so many of my countrymen would just cast aside the concepts of democratic ideals and principles at the mere drop of a hat. Bums me out, really does.
In the VAST majority of cases around the world, countries that adopt some form of democratic governing are generally the most stable in the long term. Despite struggles and problems here, or in Europe or even with Russia, and dare I say Iran, we may disagree but we can usually count on the fact that there are fewer surprises and unrest in democratic nations is something that is seen coming, not something we awake to in the morning.
Why wouldn't we want to foment this in favor of dictatorial type governments that turn over faster than a sub Saharan military uniform.
Oz, considering how many times we have argued at odds, I am with you on this one. For the life of me I am struggling to get my mind around this as it seems so many of my countrymen would just cast aside the concepts of democratic ideals and principles at the mere drop of a hat. Bums me out, really does.
What "bums" you out can easily and logically be explained.
Your "countrymen" simply believe that the theocratic takeover of Iran, the Hezbullah takeover of Lebanon, the Hamas takeover of the Palestinians, and a Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt are antithetical to the interests of the US. And, yes, in the short or long term even to the interests of freedom as can be seen in Gaza and Iran.
Again, sorry that the opposition to extremism and theocracy exhibited by your countrymen bums you out. Can you "get your mind around that"?
Last edited by lamontnow; 02-04-2011 at 12:28 PM..
What we should have been do a long long time ago was to slowly remove this guy and find a moderate leader helpful to Egypts people and our interest.
People like you two and others I find odd..
You people I think "want" to live in a utopia type world but I am sorry to break the news....There is no such thing.
Bad things happen in this world and sorry to info you, the world is filled with really bad people, I just dont think you people get it.
People have been killing each other since time began.....IT WILL NEVER STOP!
The world sees us as weak right now do to this fool of a Pres. who is forever give contradictory answers.
Remember......America 1st,everyone else 2nd!
Foolishness? The foolish statement here is, "America 1st, everyone else 2nd!" It's foolish, because it basically an expression of a global aristocracy, and our country was founded as a protest against a world where you were entitled by virtue of your birth rather than by virtue of hard work and talent and what you have to offer. It's foolish, because Americans are outnumbered by the rest of the world's citizens, and we don't live in a world where the United States is self-sufficient. We actually do require resources from around the world, and we are not in a position to dictate to the rest of the world how we will obtain those resources. That means that a level of cooperation is necessary.
Moreover, there are principles involved. I realize that integrity and principles are not held in high regard by all CD posters, and there are even some posters who ridicule such things, however, the world in toto does not take integrity and principles lightly. Even if it's only lip service being accorded to principle, the fact is that lip service is accorded because principles matter. When Mubarak made his speech a week ago, that he was the "people's president." Lip service, but lip service paid in the hopes that it would preserve his presidency. Lip service identified by the people, because Mubarak has not served as a people's president for the past thirty years.
What "bums" you out can easily and logically be explained.
Your "countrymen" simply believe that the theocratic takeover of Iran, the Hezbullah takeover of Lebanon, the Hamas takeover of the Palestinians, and a Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt are antithetical to the interests of the US. And, yes, in the short or long term even to the interests of freedom as can be seen in Gaza and Iran.
Again, sorry that the opposition to extremism and theocracy of your countrymen bums you out. Can you "get your mind around that"?
Sorry, actually, you and the others arguing alongside you seem to think that because religion may play a role in the power shifts in Egypt, and that you see that religion as an enemy, that you can defend your position. The fact is, when elections are held in the Middle East, the new leaders will, in all likelihood, want to distance themselves from American interests. And it's not because of religious extremism. It's because the American government has helped to support authoritarian regimes which have hurt their citizens. We turned a blind eye to the actions those regimes took against their own people, except when it suited us to do otherwise. We have talked about how important it is for people to have a say in their government, we have talked about how important it is to have freedom, we have talked and talked and talked. But we gave money and power and influence to leaders who denied their people a say in government, who have been oppressive in every possible way. And we did that because it served our short-term interests. We damned our own principles, our own ideology, because it served our short-term interests. That is corruption. Can you get your mind around that?
I always maintained that the U.S. really needs to stop its overseas empire by stopping foreign aid and closing all foreign military bases and withdraw from the UN
While I agree with you on many topics, this isn't one of them.
How do you propose we, as a free people, preserve our liberty and defend ourselves against those who wish us harm? In the past, the wisdom of our leaders was to maintain a strong military, and a strong military presence throughout the world.
The military bases we have maintained since WWII have served as places from which we can make a quick response, if necessary, to any threats to either ourselves or our allies, and also to maintain a visible presence to those who would do harm.
This isn't about building an empire. It is about preserving freedom.
America has in the past been a beacon of hope to many people yearning to be free. It is precisely for this reason that so many people come here.
If America is no longer the hope of the world, if we are going to roll over and die, what happens to mankind? Who will ever be free again?
I believe we have always had a duty, an obligation to the rest of the world, because we have been so blessed. Are we to ignore the suffering of others? Those throughout the world who are being oppressed?
America is not the oppressor. But our enemies think we are.
I think we need to relearn who we are and where we came from. We are not the "bad guys". I will never apologize for America.
Do you really think Egypt is going to be better off? .
Well gee, how about letting them decide for themselves what is better for them? Some in the U.N think you would be better off if you listened to and allowed the U.N to regulate American freedoms, what say you to that?But now at least certain posters who support bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan are finally letting the truth out. They don't give a damn about bringing democracy and freedom to others unless doing so helps the U.S.A. But if keeping people under a tyrant helps the U.S.A, in that case that's alright.
"Muslims gonna take over America". Please. Just more rhetoric to justify military and American excursions around the world.
Maybe what would be better for America is to not always pick sides and just trade with people? Maybe THAT would create a safer environment for America around the world? Maybe less American military would have to die that way?
America has in the past been a beacon of hope to many people yearning to be free. It is precisely for this reason that so many people come here.
.
Come here yes....great. Some of you all like going over there, with weapons to nanny.
But as been admited by serveral hawk posters in recent days, bringing freedom to people is only good if the government installed will be play alongsto the U.S.A. Otherwise freedom is bad for people.....
While I agree with you on many topics, this isn't one of them.
How do you propose we, as a free people, preserve our liberty and defend ourselves against those who wish us harm? In the past, the wisdom of our leaders was to maintain a strong military, and a strong military presence throughout the world.
The military bases we have maintained since WWII have served as places from which we can make a quick response, if necessary, to any threats to either ourselves or our allies, and also to maintain a visible presence to those who would do harm.
This isn't about building an empire. It is about preserving freedom.
America has in the past been a beacon of hope to many people yearning to be free. It is precisely for this reason that so many people come here.
If America is no longer the hope of the world, if we are going to roll over and die, what happens to mankind? Who will ever be free again?
I believe we have always had a duty, an obligation to the rest of the world, because we have been so blessed. Are we to ignore the suffering of others? Those throughout the world who are being oppressed?
America is not the oppressor. But our enemies think we are.
I think we need to relearn who we are and where we came from. We are not the "bad guys". I will never apologize for America.
If we support oppressors against the oppressed, how are we not complicit in the oppression?
If you work to overturn a regime that isn't favorable to you, but was democratically elected, and replace that democracy with an authoritarian form of government, how can you say that you are not the oppressor?
I agree with you. We are not the "bad guys." We are good guys. And the world is complicated and challenging, and sometimes we are faced with choices. We were faced with a choice when we chose to support the Shah of Iran. We were faced with a choice when we helped Saddam Hussein gain power in Iraq. We were faced with a choice over and over and over again whenever we annually sent money to authoritarian governments, when we defended them internationally. It's not easy to make the right decisions.
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,thats funny...
