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like i Said, im lower middle class..i unload trucks for a living at a supermarket. i chose an employer that offers this coverage. Thats called planning and negotiation. For much of my life, i had no coverage. I never complained about it or expected anything from the government. I did things for myself Than and i do Now..Underemployed you Said? i was delivering pizzas For $5 A Hour..can't get much more unemployed than that can we bro.? im not a Rich guy..but i am a free market self-reliance guy. I dont want anything from the government. and yes if people dont pay their bills, they deserve bad credit. i bust my butt to keep my credit good and i deserve to have good credit...those that do not, do not.
If what you say here is true, you are a perfect example of the poor that support the wrong party because you blindly believe that they represent "freedom" and the American way of life. I believed their lies for years and voted against my own best interest.
FYI, I don't want anything from the government, either.
But, we all need government that protects it's citizens from the greed of big business. We have seen what having a government that represents business interests over the interests of the American public brings ... unemployment, foreclosed houses, individuals and businesses who are unable to afford health insurance premiums and a new class of working poor Americans that were once the middle class.
Planning and negotiation as a truck unloader...??? Your way of looking at life is extremely simple. Do you own a home?
Free market, self-reliance guy, I wish you luck.
Last edited by World Citizen; 04-09-2011 at 01:50 PM..
Unbelievable that you have the audacity to ask me "Why don't I help them voluntarily?"
Because,....
I'm one of the underemployed in this country that has been forced to work at an extremely low paying job for health insurance because I can no longer afford an individual health insurance policy with a reasonable deductible. The only policy that I could afford prior to taking this job (which still wasn't cheap) had a $5,000 deductible and they were willing to raise my deductible even more to keep taking my money for zero coverage. As of January 1st, the company I work for went from a $500 deductible policy to a $1,500 deductible policy with less coverage so that they can continue to offer affordable health insurance to their employees.
And, to answer your other comments ....
The woman that I spoke of whose health insurance would not pay for an ambulance to come get her has Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield which is provided by her husband's employer. You make it sound like there's a smogasboard of jobs out there for people to choose from which offer great benefits. Maybe you haven't been watching the news but that's not the case. Even if there were many jobs to choose from, her husband has been with this company for many years. He's middle aged. I don't think he's going to become a job jumper like you propose.
The family that I spoke of whose losing everything due to his wife's illness runs a second generation business - the business is about as solid as the dirt you're buried in. As a small business owner with just a very few employees he didn't have the health insurance options available that big businesses can purchase. These folks are relatively young people in their 40's. His wife has been sick now for 15 years. She was once a county official. They are hard working, rock solid people.
It's too bad that you people feel that you have all the answers for everyone else and refuse to acknowledge that health insurance needs reforming and affordable health insurance should be available for everyone.
btw - I left out discussing #2 in your post but it would be good for you to look at the history of who introduced the bill that repealed Glass Steagall and how it got passed. The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of Glass–Steagall since at least the 1980s.
I'll give you a hint,... it was the same party that always looks after corporate interests instead of caring about the rest of us. True to form regarding their stance against health insurance reform, they're looking after the "interests" of the health insurance companies instead of looking out for you.
Don't put words in my mouth. I NEVER said our healthcare system didn't need fixing. I said "free drinks on the house" is not the way to solve them.
And do NOT lecture me on employment. I'm middle aged, and just coming off UNEMPLOYMENT.
So I ask you again, what will you do voluntarily to help people like your friend? If the answer is nothing, then you have no right to demand that the govt, with MY tax dollars, do something for her.
Spare me the "corporate interest" crap. Look no further than the oval office to see who exactly is in bed with corporate interests.
Don't put words in my mouth. I NEVER said our healthcare system didn't need fixing. I said "free drinks on the house" is not the way to solve them.
And do NOT lecture me on employment. I'm middle aged, and just coming off UNEMPLOYMENT.
So I ask you again, what will you do voluntarily to help people like your friend? If the answer is nothing, then you have no right to demand that the govt, with MY tax dollars, do something for her.
Spare me the "corporate interest" crap. Look no further than the oval office to see who exactly is in bed with corporate interests.
I've got many thoughts about your post but it's not worth it...
Obviously, you're ok now and you were able to draw unemployment until you could find another job - with good benefits.
Now, you don't give a damn about anyone else's problems.
Good luck with that new job~
<ignore>
Last edited by World Citizen; 04-09-2011 at 01:36 PM..
The whole idea of people not wanting healthcare is starting an argument from a false premise.
Right now, I am resting from cutting firewood, in my living room, typing on a computer, and in no need of medical attention.
Right now, I do not want healthcare. Right now, the money I am spending on my health insurance isn't worth anything to me.
But, after I go back outside, and start sawing again, lets say I have an accident. I get a kickback, and the saw cuts my arm a little. Suddenly I want healthcare.
This is the whole argument of healthcare. Everyone wants healthcare, when they need it. No one wants to pay for it, when they don't. But healthcare costs are so high that you can't pay for it with cash, well most of us anyway.
I'm sure most of you, like me, don't have an extra 200,000 dollars lying around to pay for a three day hospital stay.
I don't like taxes, I don't like government services that don't service every person directly in someway, shape, form, or fashion, and I don't like having to pay for government waste. That said, I feel there should be one, universal healthcare system that is paid for, by taxation, for each and every person in the country. Some will always pay more than others, you make more, you pay more in taxes, this is just the way of the world.
But I don't think that free government care should come without limitation. We shouldn't be paying for abortions that aren't life threatening, or caused by rape. We shouldn't be paying so your kid can have their acne taken care of. We shouldn't be paying so that your carpul tunnel is taken care of. Restless leg syndrome? Sorry, its not life threatening.
But if you fall and break your leg, get cancer, bump your head on the bottom of the ocean when swimming and you need medical attention, that should be taken care of for you, no problems.
If you want the extra healthcare that isn't life threatening, then you can get supplemental insurance. Ask a senior about it, I'm sure they know all about supplementing for the things that medicare doesn't pay for.
Relieve the burden from employers, make sure that no one has to worry about their life being in danger because they can't afford a copay or a hospital stay, but make sure everyone knows that your free care does come at a predefined limit.
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The out of pocket costs of things
In 1989 (roughly) we were military and my oldest boy a toddler at that time, got his thumb caught in a car door. I took him to the military hospital on post...later the costs of the treatment came to us....3,000.00 for x-ray and casting as his thumb was broken.
Would I have had that cash on hand? No.
However, there is a trade off when the government is providing your care, we do not pick and choose our physicians, one is appointed for us.
We don't get right in, in the ER, there may be several hours wait time...
There is more and those who are military, all ready have an understanding of, government run health care.
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 04-09-2011 at 01:39 PM..
Reason: tense
The whole idea of people not wanting healthcare is starting an argument from a false premise.
snipped for brevity
I was with you until this:
But I don't think that free government care should come without limitation. We shouldn't be paying for abortions that aren't life threatening, or caused by rape. We shouldn't be paying so your kid can have their acne taken care of. We shouldn't be paying so that your carpul tunnel is taken care of. Restless leg syndrome? Sorry, its not life threatening.
Since it's against federal law to use federal funds for abortion, I guess we really don't have to worry about that. However, acne can be very severe and debilitating to some kids, and the treatment isn't really *that* expensive. Carpal tunnel syndrom can keep you from working. Is it preferable for the person to collect disability for the rest of their working days?
I agree with you but I also know that fear causes people to make all kinds of bad decisions.
I know more about her family situation than I've stated here.
The bottom line is that the ambulance ride should have been paid for by her insurance in a case like this.
When you desperately need to go to the hospital, you shouldn't have to worry about your claim being denied.
well then she shouldnt have worried about it..she should have called the ambulance. This is her stupidity for not doing so. Who cares if it was paid for or not? That is the last thing i would have thought about. You cannot in any case Tell a private insurance company what they "should" cover. This is the insurance you purchased and they cover what you agreed to When u signed up...or if you don't agree, don't sign up..thats called freedom
because we don't live in a socialistic environment..we shouldn't anyway. everyone should take care of themselves. Health care is not a right...it is a commodity like a car or golf clubs
The whole idea of people not wanting healthcare is starting an argument from a false premise.
Right now, I am resting from cutting firewood, in my living room, typing on a computer, and in no need of medical attention.
Right now, I do not want healthcare. Right now, the money I am spending on my health insurance isn't worth anything to me.
But, after I go back outside, and start sawing again, lets say I have an accident. I get a kickback, and the saw cuts my arm a little. Suddenly I want healthcare.
This is the whole argument of healthcare. Everyone wants healthcare, when they need it. No one wants to pay for it, when they don't. But healthcare costs are so high that you can't pay for it with cash, well most of us anyway.
I'm sure most of you, like me, don't have an extra 200,000 dollars lying around to pay for a three day hospital stay.
I don't like taxes, I don't like government services that don't service every person directly in someway, shape, form, or fashion, and I don't like having to pay for government waste. That said, I feel there should be one, universal healthcare system that is paid for, by taxation, for each and every person in the country. Some will always pay more than others, you make more, you pay more in taxes, this is just the way of the world.
But I don't think that free government care should come without limitation. We shouldn't be paying for abortions that aren't life threatening, or caused by rape. We shouldn't be paying so your kid can have their acne taken care of. We shouldn't be paying so that your carpul tunnel is taken care of. Restless leg syndrome? Sorry, its not life threatening.
But if you fall and break your leg, get cancer, bump your head on the bottom of the ocean when swimming and you need medical attention, that should be taken care of for you, no problems.
If you want the extra healthcare that isn't life threatening, then you can get supplemental insurance. Ask a senior about it, I'm sure they know all about supplementing for the things that medicare doesn't pay for.
Relieve the burden from employers, make sure that no one has to worry about their life being in danger because they can't afford a copay or a hospital stay, but make sure everyone knows that your free care does come at a predefined limit.
I feel the exact same way about health insurance. There should be that safety net for everyone to get the absolute necessities taken care of. If you want the extras, as you so eloquently listed, you can save up and pay cash for it or you can take out a supplemental private insurance. My friends in Australia do this for when they don't want to solely rely on the national healthcare.
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We agree. Our healthcare system needs fixing...
