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You are talking about changing the very reason for a country to exist as an entity. Maybe we are headed to a totally unified existence in the future, but the present condition is quite different.
I am not so sure one religion or one ethnicity has been a reason for a country to exist or be founded, at least not with younger countries. I can't think of any except Israel
I am not so sure one religion or one ethnicity has been a reason for a country to exist or be founded, at least not with younger countries. I can't think of any except Israel
East Timor: 2002; Roman Catholics wanted separation from Muslim Indonesia
Southern Sudan: 2011; Christians and Animists wanted separation from Muslim north
Kosovo: 2008; Muslims wanted separation from Christians, ethnic tensions
I don't know what you consider to be "young" but going back to the early 90's you have many new countries that were formed with the end of the Soviet Union. Many divisions exist due to ethnicities.
That state concept poses another problem, namely who is supposed or allowed to live there? Why would Jews from Europe, many of whose ancestors had lived in Europe for almost a thousand years, have a right to move down there and call Israel their country, while Palestinians still don't have a state of their own, although they have been living down there all the time
Maybe after spending that 1,000 years being attacked, pogromed, raped, spat upon, limited to what neighborhoods they could live in, what jobs they could hold, generally discriminated against even in the most favorable of nations - and finally nearly wiped out completely in WW2, they decideed it was time to move to a safe haven.
Not too hard for even the dimmest bulb to understand, once they've learned their history.
And how many times do ppl on this forum need to be told that the arab muslims who today call themselves "palestinians" were NOT living there before the jews came and immigrated?
Even if their ancestors were from the Middle East (in many cases that is not the case as European Jews have a more liberal attitude regarding the definition of being Jewish), my point is, why would they have the right to move to Israel now even though they themselves have as little to do with Israel as I have?
Oh I see, everyone else is allowed to immigrate, moving for jobs, freedom, etc. - but jews are NOT allowed. I get it thanks for sharing
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Egypt at least is a geographical and cultural neighbor of Israel, completely unlike Poland.
How much further can you embarrass yourself with these unbelievably stupid posts?
I see it differently. In my view modern Israel is basically a fascist bully that is not much different from Nazi Germany, from which they learned a lot.
Every religion has its branch of nuts. These are Ultra Orthodox Jews that follow the bible to the letter without deviation as certain as Iran follows the Quran to the letter. The are waiting for g_d to come down and grant them Israel. But they have no problem living in Israel on Israeli welfare. They are not just against Zionists, they are against any Jew that doesn't believe the way they do. Shiite/Sunni & Hamas/Fatah have the same issues in reference to the Quran.
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All the Jews I know have no plans to move to Israel.
Why would believing in the existance of Israel make people want to live there? Why would they want to leave their comfort zone to live there? Do you think the Jews who lived in Arab countries wanted to leave their comfort zones for 100's (if not 1000's) of years in Arab countries? They were forced to go with only the clothing on their backs. Research Mizrahi Jews.
As to Arab ownership of land, there are numerous Arabs who can prove generational ownership by supplying Ottoman paperwork as proof and Turkey has the old files to prove it. Israel accepts this and pays them for their land. Then you have the numerous squatters who have no proof under Ottoman rule nor British rule that they own the land they are sitting on. Many Jews bought land from Arabs under Ottoman rule as far back as the early 1800's and created farms. 1000's of Arabs came from other countries to work on these farms. This is why there were many more Muslims than Jews before WW1 and Zionism. The Jews paid much better than Arab land owners.
So you say most of the Jews have no right to the land well this is also true for most of the Arabs too. This is why the UN split the country the way they did because of where the concentrations were at a nearly 50/50 split. The Jews accepted it and moved off the lands set to be Arab that they had lived on for multiple generations. The Arabs didnt. So through 63 years of wars the Squatters have been trying to take ALL the land and lost every single war. So now Israel should just give to them what they've been trying to take for 63 years? Not.
I'd probably tell the US to stop funding Egypt, Jordan and Israel. And tell Iran to stop sending weapons and Hezbollah to mind their own business. Thus let them fight it out amongst themselves. Hopefully the UN will stay out of it as much as they've stayed out of all the Arab uprisings and call it a "Internal Matter" as they call all the other Arab countries. Lets see these Palestinian warriors come out and fight instead of sending out children with rocks and teens with suicide vests. You dont see any of this type of cowardice in any other Arab country fighting for liberation.
Every religion has its branch of nuts. These are Ultra Orthodox Jews that follow the bible to the letter without deviation as certain as Iran follows the Quran to the letter. The are waiting for g_d to come down and grant them Israel. But they have no problem living in Israel on Israeli welfare. They are not just against Zionists, they are against any Jew that doesn't believe the way they do. Shiite/Sunni & Hamas/Fatah have the same issues in reference to the Quran.
Why would believing in the existance of Israel make people want to live there? Why would they want to leave their comfort zone to live there? Do you think the Jews who lived in Arab countries wanted to leave their comfort zones for 100's (if not 1000's) of years in Arab countries? They were forced to go with only the clothing on their backs. Research Mizrahi Jews.
As to Arab ownership of land, there are numerous Arabs who can prove generational ownership by supplying Ottoman paperwork as proof and Turkey has the old files to prove it. Israel accepts this and pays them for their land. Then you have the numerous squatters who have no proof under Ottoman rule nor British rule that they own the land they are sitting on. Many Jews bought land from Arabs under Ottoman rule as far back as the early 1800's and created farms. 1000's of Arabs came from other countries to work on these farms. This is why there were many more Muslims than Jews before WW1 and Zionism. The Jews paid much better than Arab land owners.
So you say most of the Jews have no right to the land well this is also true for most of the Arabs too. This is why the UN split the country the way they did because of where the concentrations were at a nearly 50/50 split. The Jews accepted it and moved off the lands set to be Arab that they had lived on for multiple generations. The Arabs didnt. So through 63 years of wars the Squatters have been trying to take ALL the land and lost every single war. So now Israel should just give to them what they've been trying to take for 63 years? Not.
I'd probably tell the US to stop funding Egypt, Jordan and Israel. And tell Iran to stop sending weapons and Hezbollah to mind their own business. Thus let them fight it out amongst themselves. Hopefully the UN will stay out of it as much as they've stayed out of all the Arab uprisings and call it a "Internal Matter" as they call all the other Arab countries. Lets see these Palestinian warriors come out and fight instead of sending out children with rocks and teens with suicide vests. You dont see any of this type of cowardice in any other Arab country fighting for liberation.
Why even bother responding to morons?
A person claims they know some jews so that means that all jews do not support or want israel to exist, that is the level of this thread.
Ok, someone help me understand this fuzzy logic LMAO.
This dude turns up at my house and wakes me up in the middle of the night and recounts how much his bum has been kicked in some alien, unknown land for several years.
Well, sorry to hear that.
And then he proceeds to say he fled the old place to escape this terror.
Agreed, I'd do that too.
And then he proceeds to say his ancestors lived here, right in my house 2000 years ago. Actually, he even says his great great great great grand papa had a little shack at the very place my house stands and he ate manna which dropped from the sky.
Well.............
And now it gets better, he is convinced all his horrors won't happen to him if he stays here in this land.
Well, fine, bro, peace.
And this is where it gets bizarre, he tells me the house I live in is his and that I have to vacate.
What the F
And suddenly his brawny friends show up with baseball bats and they say they would beat me up if I don't pack up and leave.
And before I could react, they beat me up and throw me out and I'm left standing like this
And when I'm standing outside homeless, he tells me from inside my house he is finally happy and how he deserves it coz he suffered in that foreign blah blah blah land, and that I'm expected to be at peace with him and kindly leave the scene.
I mean, how barbaric is that. It's illogical and inadmissible. It's actually laughable. And the baseball bat goons suddenly tell me they are waiting for the second coming and that I need to be SAVED.
And this is the plight of the Palestinian folks.
And when you point this out, you are a kid, a teenager, you don't know history and you are even a moron. Yeah, right. Do me a favour and find mentally challenged people you can sell your sob stories to
Last edited by Currency Pair Crocodile; 05-12-2011 at 05:09 PM..
Maybe after spending that 1,000 years being attacked, pogromed, raped, spat upon, limited to what neighborhoods they could live in, what jobs they could hold, generally discriminated against even in the most favorable of nations - and finally nearly wiped out completely in WW2, they decideed it was time to move to a safe haven.
Not too hard for even the dimmest bulb to understand, once they've learned their history.
And how many times do ppl on this forum need to be told that the arab muslims who today call themselves "palestinians" were NOT living there before the jews came and immigrated?
If that is a reason for total strangers to be allowed to immigrate to a different country, I should go and search my ancestors' history, maybe I can find an interesting place I would like to live
And the younger ones from Europe have no more reason to emigrate than say Gypsies, actually the latter have it worse these days, but they have no safe haven to move to.
Your last paragraph is nonsense. Israelis are Palestinians (in the original meaning) themselves and ethnically close sisters and brothers of what is today referred to as Palestinians, i.e. Palestinians in the original meaning minus Jews. And that is logical as all those people developed mainly out of the ancient local Canaan population. Only some of modern Palestinians' ancestors have come from the Greek islands and other places.
Because they don't actual research anything they type. They hit one webpage and they think thats the truth for all. They have no comprehension that the word Zionist simply means the belief that Israel should exist. There are people in America who believe that America should not exist. So why don't they leave and go back to their ancestral homes?
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A person claims they know some jews ......
And we know a load of Christians. We dont exactly see them running to live in Israel since their religion started there.
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