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1) Considering that the idea of State of Israel was conceived and carved out of Palestine, technically the people living in those region (and their descendents) would be Palestinians.
If some Palestinians choose to be a part of Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, it is a choice they have had.
2) Yes. As for population growth, if there are people wanting to be second class citizens over the cruelty that goes on, via blockade or otherwise, in West Bank and Gaza, there is always a potential for many to choose so. Fertility rate of the Arabs has dropped drastically inside Israel, although, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that as telling us much.
3) The map you're dismissing shows the Palestinian territory over a period of time. Of course, people don't live on every inch of land in any territory. May be that is a propaganda you would have everybody buy into?
4) Is doesn't matter. There was no State of Israel there, and wouldn't have been, if not for the Brits, the US and the UN as a whole.
Israelis are Palestinians themselves, although they don't want to hear that as they think they are different or special...
Israelis are Palestinians themselves, although they don't want to hear that as they think they are different or special...
I'm sure there are Jewish Israelis who see eye to eye with Arabs (within Israel or in "District 9" and "District 10") and feel their pain. But it is those (and their supporters) who consider that the privileges they have been afforded has directly descended from God of Israel (and nobody else's God). Because the religious scripture says so.
It worked for them in the past right?
Everyone liked them before 1948 no?
It's not a question of "everybody liked them." There have always been conflicts between cultures and religions, but nothing as gross and persistant and flagrant as the Palestinian occupation.
Muslims too, have had their share of persecution in the past. And Christians.
Or don't they count? Is Jewish persecution "special?"
Of course not. Persecution happens to many groups, if not all.
I'm sure there are Jewish Israelis who see eye to eye with Arabs (within Israel or in "District 9" and "District 10") and feel their pain. But it is those (and their supporters) who consider that the privileges they have been afforded has directly descended from God of Israel (and nobody else's God). Because the religious scripture says so.
And the Christian Zionists are fueling the fires with their funding, as they hope to fly away on a cloud with Jesus just as soon as most Jews die in a nuclear war with Iran. That's their doctrinal justification for "supporting" Israel.
It's not a question of "everybody liked them." There have always been conflicts between cultures and religions, but nothing as gross and persistant and flagrant as the Palestinian occupation.
Muslims too, have had their share of persecution in the past. And Christians.
Or don't they count? Is Jewish persecution "special?"
Of course not. Persecution happens to many groups, if not all.
Peace,
brian
You missed the point of the post. Of course persecution exists for other cultures.
The point was that your idea that Jews will get treated fairly if they just "play by the rules" is a fairy tale.
You missed the point of the post. Of course persecution exists for other cultures.
The point was that your idea that Jews will get treated fairly if they just "play by the rules" is a fairy tale.
I disagree. The idea that "Jews are special" and that they deserve "special rules" is nothing other than a victim-role mentality and provocation. Persecution exists all over the world. It's a fact of life. If Jews are "God's chosen people," then why don't they trust in HIM to take care of them? Why do they need to beg and plead for "special care??"
Proverbs 16.7: "When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him."
I disagree. The idea that "Jews are special" and that they deserve "special rules" is nothing other than a victim-role mentality and provocation. Persecution exists all over the world. It's a fact of life. If Jews are "God's chosen people," then why don't they trust in HIM to take care of them? Why do they need to beg and plead for "special care??"
Proverbs 16.7: "When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him."
That should be sufficient.
Peace,
brian
In a perfect world, yes.
But history has shown otherwise.
No one said Jews deserve special treatment or special rules. Everyone plays by their own rules to do what they believe is in their best interest.
1) Considering that the idea of State of Israel was conceived and carved out of Palestine, technically the people living in those region (and their descendents) would be Palestinians.
If some Palestinians choose to be a part of Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, it is a choice they have had.
The reason for my question was your statement that Israel would like to exterminate the Palestinians in some way. Hence, I asked who are the Palestinians that are/will be subject of such insane plan. Your answer just demonstrates how silly the accusation is and also that the Palestinians are the same ethnic group in parts of Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. So the independent state may (at best) be a solution for some, but not for the Palestinians in general. On the other hand, the opposite (Palestinians wanting to annihilate Israel) is a very real possibility.
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2) Yes. As for population growth, if there are people wanting to be second class citizens over the cruelty that goes on, via blockade or otherwise, in West Bank and Gaza, there is always a potential for many to choose so. Fertility rate of the Arabs has dropped drastically inside Israel, although, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that as telling us much.
My answer was aimed at the accusations of physical extermination that are frequently thrown around this forum. Yes, the Palestinian population has a hard life and are subject to rough treatment. And in Gaza and the west bank they aren't second class citizens. They aren't citizens at all. By choice. When Israel issued ID cards to Arabs in Jerusalem, they tore, spit, and stepped on them in front of the cameras. Saying that they aren't equal citizens is *****. However, inside Israel there are about 1.5M full rights Arab citizens, who vote and run for office.
One more thing: the people in Gaza can always leave. (It is often said that they live in a modern day Auschwitz!) A reasonable person would pick up his family and move elsewhere (the Palestinian diaspora is wide spread) if living conditions became intolerable. What's the point of suffering in Gaza, if many refugees arrived there from other places?
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3) The map you're dismissing shows the Palestinian territory over a period of time. Of course, people don't live on every inch of land in any territory.
That's not what I mean. It means that even in 1946 Jews could legally buy lands in the green area, since it didn't belong to a Palestinian independent entity. Thus showing it shaded in green (while the white area only spotted with Jewish settlements) is misleading and aimed at making an impression on those unfamiliar with middle east history.
Last edited by oberon_1; 05-26-2011 at 01:49 PM..
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May be that is a propaganda you would have everybody buy into?
