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As someone that has worked in the movie rental and in the electronics sales industries (give you a hint...they both began with B's) I don't tihnk it's right to rent/sell R rated movies or MA games to minors.
If you can't go see it in the theater then you shouldn't be allowed to rent/buy it in a store.
JMHO.
Also, if there are no laws allowing the rent/purchase to a minor it must be the company policy then that doesn't allow it.
I think that sales shouldn't be restricted at all. Parents should be responsible enough to pay attention to what their child is doing and choose for themselves whether or not they think their child should get to play/watch it or not.
Kids could usually find some way to get it anyways, whether by getting their parents to buy it or to get an older sibling (or an older sibling of a friend, or just an older friend) to buy it for them. Then it becomes the parents' job anyways to pay attention to what they just brought home from the video game store they went to with their older brother.
Laws restricting sales to "minors" only serve to take the parenting away from the parent.
My parents never restricted what I could play or watch when I was growing up, and I'm about as well-adjusted as one could get (as long as you don't think that sarcasm-assaults are signs of maladjustment) and work in a law firm.
But they could get away with that because they parented. They made sure I knew right from wrong and the difference between video games and reality.
Heck, even after I had nightmares when I was really young after watching horror movies, they still didn't put an official restriction on horror movies. They basically said "As long as you don't mind the nightmares, you can still watch them if you want." I put MYSELF on a restriction because I did mind the nightmares.
If parents could just be parents, then we wouldn't need any restrictions at all.
First it has never been illegal in the vast majority for minors to view, rent, or even purchase R rated movies. In fact the only media that it is "illegal" for a minor to purchase is what is deemed "obscene" as defined in non-protected speech clauses. What you have instead is voluntary self regulation where theaters have standing policies to card for purchase of tickets at the counter.
Likewise there has been an increasing shift in retailers to hold a similar practice for video games where they ask for ID at the point of sale regarding games with M ratings or even T ratings if the child seems to young, that or asking if their parent is present so they can have approval much the same way a legal guardian or family member can take a minor to an R or PG-13 rated film if they are under the suggested age.
Second, it is not the idea of enforcing existing ratings that proved a problem. It is the fact that instead of attempting this the state tried to mandate what games were "violent" as cause for outright banning of their sale to minors. Part of the USSC ruling specifically pointed out that the law as it was written did not hold clauses for consent of legal guardians and thus was to inclusive as it would prevent the sale to minors who parents did grant permission. It also shifted the control to the state level undermining the ESRB which was also mentioned in the ruling where they said the industry already provides a ratings criteria.
In short the problem was not the idea of enforcing ratings... it was the idea of the state deciding what had "violent content" and mandating restriction of sale based on demographic rather than enforcing ratings on all content. The focus was too narrow and the restriction to inclusive. Those were points made in the ruling released by the USSC.
First it has never been illegal in the vast majority for minors to view, rent, or even purchase R rated movies. In fact the only media that it is "illegal" for a minor to purchase is what is deemed "obscene" as defined in non-protected speech clauses. What you have instead is voluntary self regulation where theaters have standing policies to card for purchase of tickets at the counter.
Likewise there has been an increasing shift in retailers to hold a similar practice for video games where they ask for ID at the point of sale regarding games with M ratings or even T ratings if the child seems to young, that or asking if their parent is present so they can have approval much the same way a legal guardian or family member can take a minor to an R or PG-13 rated film if they are under the suggested age.
Second, it is not the idea of enforcing existing ratings that proved a problem. It is the fact that instead of attempting this the state tried to mandate what games were "violent" as cause for outright banning of their sale to minors. Part of the USSC ruling specifically pointed out that the law as it was written did not hold clauses for consent of legal guardians and thus was to inclusive as it would prevent the sale to minors who parents did grant permission. It also shifted the control to the state level undermining the ESRB which was also mentioned in the ruling where they said the industry already provides a ratings criteria.
In short the problem was not the idea of enforcing ratings... it was the idea of the state deciding what had "violent content" and mandating restriction of sale based on demographic rather than enforcing ratings on all content. The focus was too narrow and the restriction to inclusive. Those were points made in the ruling released by the USSC.
Thank you for the summary
However we go back to my original point....
A 12 yr old would not be given admittance to say....The Hangover 2, yet the same 12 yr old would be able to walk across the street and buy Duke Nukem.
I have a problem with this.
Not the rating system, but the fact that video game retailers SEEM to not be held to the same standard when enforcing voluntary rules on selling "MA" material to minors.
A 12 yr old would not be given admittance to say....The Hangover 2, yet the same 12 yr old would be able to walk across the street and buy Duke Nukem
That is actually not true. Most retailers in many states already enforce a carding policy as I mentioned in the post you just quoted. That means if little jimmy was turned away from the The Hangover 2 because he lacked proper ID, then walked to Gamestop and tried to buy Duke Nukem which is rated M and either lacked ID.... they would ask if his parent was present because the game is rated M for 17+.
It is a standard practice at all retailers in California already and I know many companies have it as a nationwide policy.
So your analogy is rather flawed... game retailers are self regulating in the same way movie theaters do.
A 12 yr old would not be given admittance to say....The Hangover 2, yet the same 12 yr old would be able to walk across the street and buy Duke Nukem.
I have a problem with this.
Not the rating system, but the fact that video game retailers SEEM to not be held to the same standard when enforcing voluntary rules on selling "MA" material to minors.
It all depends on the store.
I still get asked about my age when I try to buy R-rated movies or M-rated games and I'm going on 27.
And this is at places like Wal-mart and Gamestop.
I'd imagine most major chains won't sell games to minors, if only out of fear of it coming back to bite them in the rear if a parent finds their kid with a violent or sexually explicit game.
Social conservatives love blaming everyone but themselves for societal ills. If their child grows up and becomes a mass murderer, it's not their fault, it's hollywood's.
You're wrong.
When kids do assanine things b/c their parents
petted them
and cooed at them
and told them everything they do is hunky-dory
-- from screaming and running around a restaurant, to disrupting a classroom, to getting that glazed-over look in front of violent video games for hours a day
-- I most certainly blame the non-parenting parents.
Depends on where they go. Some places would allow it, some won't.
Depends on where they go. Some places would allow it, some won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampylle
That is actually not true. Most retailers in many states already enforce a carding policy as I mentioned in the post you just quoted. That means if little jimmy was turned away from the The Hangover 2 because he lacked proper ID, then walked to Gamestop and tried to buy Duke Nukem which is rated M and either lacked ID.... they would ask if his parent was present because the game is rated M for 17+.
It is a standard practice at all retailers in California already and I know many companies have it as a nationwide policy.
So your analogy is rather flawed... game retailers are self regulating in the same way movie theaters do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Brilliant
It all depends on the store.
I still get asked about my age when I try to buy R-rated movies or M-rated games and I'm going on 27.
And this is at places like Wal-mart and Gamestop.
I'd imagine most major chains won't sell games to minors, if only out of fear of it coming back to bite them in the rear if a parent finds their kid with a violent or sexually explicit game.
Well then...my entire thread has now been proven absolutely useless.
I wonder if any of the Supremes actually watched the games they ruled on? Some of these games are brutal.
Probably about as much as legislators read and understand all the laws all of the laws they vote on, which is to say, probably very rarely. It's not overwhelmingly relevant to their concern, in their view. Typically, they look at the description in the court documents and take the arguments from both sides to a large degree at face value. They are mainly concerned with whether something meets a pre-established litmus test.
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