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Old 08-18-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 4,196,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
"I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion." -- James Buchanan: from Rufus K. Noyes, Views of Religion, also James A. Haught, ed., 2000 Years of Disbelief
I never mind having another book to read. Thank you.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:04 PM
 
527 posts, read 467,984 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
So the US was a big pile of dirt before man arrived here?
Do you seriously think it had manicured lawns?
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:06 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,021,070 times
Reputation: 5455
I'm sure there was some grass growing and plenty of it.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:24 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,140,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
The total number of jobs "destroyed or prevented" in the domestic energy exploration and production industry already runs into the hundreds of thousands, not to mention the indirect effects of higher energy costs. People are waking up to the fact that sometimes in order to move forward, you have to quit going backward.

I think this has a lot to do with Mr. Obama's low and declining approval ratings and the slowest economic recovery in US history. All we need to do is allow our companies to get to work and stop destroying jobs and economic activity.
Never. Planet first, people second. Why? Because you can't have the former without the latter. If by "moving forward" you also destroy, then you are not moving forward.

No, I don't live in a cave. Yes, I probably use some oil-based products. It is nearly impossible to avoid them in modern society. I would PREFER alternatives but I'm not in a position to design them. I also trust these alternatives are currently not for mass consumption as they would be hard to squeeze a profit out of. Profit and security are not acceptable reasons to destroy that which sustains you.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:33 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,369 posts, read 6,413,164 times
Reputation: 6388
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Never. Planet first, people second. Why? Because you can't have the former without the latter. If by "moving forward" you also destroy, then you are not moving forward.

No, I don't live in a cave. Yes, I probably use some oil-based products. It is nearly impossible to avoid them in modern society. I would PREFER alternatives but I'm not in a position to design them. I also trust these alternatives are currently not for mass consumption as they would be hard to squeeze a profit out of. Profit and security are not acceptable reasons to destroy that which sustains you.
So let us consider this: wealth equals health. The developed economies of the world experienced a huge increase in life expectancy, relative to the low-environmental-impact subsistence ag societies they replaced.

In a very real way, profit is what sustains us. And wealth has enabled us to clean the environment over the past four decades to an astonishing degree. If there is no way to make a profit from a product, then it cannot exist in a sustainable fashion. Wind energy, for one example, will probably represent a lower fraction of production in fifty years than it does today: you cannot pay double the value for something over time.

I'm not too interested in that romantic notion of subsistence farming, with its life spans in the 40 year range. And if you take away the trappings of the developed world, that is where you end up.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 4,196,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Never. Planet first, people second. Why? Because you can't have the former without the latter.
Lol. Exactly.
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
 
527 posts, read 467,984 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I'm sure there was some grass growing and plenty of it.
Typical simplistic arguing tactic, obviously grass grew here, but not in LAWNS, wild grasslands are called meadows, prairies, fens, etc. I stated that LAWNS are man made artifices that should be abolished as wasteful use of oil and gas to run mowers, wasteful use of drinking quality processed water (which is what most people pour over their lawns), and because of the pesticides dumped into the environment. All of this just so people can have outdoor wall to wall carpeting.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:05 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,021,070 times
Reputation: 5455
I guess we should just blacktop all the yards or better yet just pile everybody up into the bee hives like the agenda 21'ers want to do then hi speed rail em around from pop center to pop center?? Are you one of those folks? It sure sounds like it.

Ever heard of a push mower and rain? I guess not. When you 21 folks get your way no humans will be allowed in your little protected meadows and prairies so all they will have is their little patch of grass if they're one of the chosen few allowed to live outside the hives like Al Gore and his bunch.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:16 PM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,109,537 times
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:27 PM
 
527 posts, read 467,984 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by KUchief25 View Post
I guess we should just blacktop all the yards or better yet just pile everybody up into the bee hives like the agenda 21'ers want to do then hi speed rail em around from pop center to pop center?? Are you one of those folks? It sure sounds like it.

Ever heard of a push mower and rain? I guess not. When you 21 folks get your way no humans will be allowed in your little protected meadows and prairies so all they will have is their little patch of grass if they're one of the chosen few allowed to live outside the hives like Al Gore and his bunch.
No, I am 'not one of those 21 folks'- its interesting how people need to label those that they disagree with. Yes, I have heard of a push mower, used one all of my life, never used a power mower.Rain is not enough water to keep most lawns as green as most people want their outdoor green carpet-dont even try to use that rain argument,just look at all of the sprinklers going in the summer(which by the way is the absolutely MOST stupid way to water a lawn). Just because I think that this country needs to get off of the oil and gas crack, and find alernatives to these obsolete technologies that have finite supplies that WILL run out, I guess i have to be labeled a crackpot by those that are happy to suck at the teat of Exxon and all the rest of those crooks. These oil and gas corporations have been sucking the money out of this country for decades and will keep doing so until people wise up that it is a dead end road to follow the fossil fuel spills left behind by these corporate crooks.
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