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I must admit being quite shocked and a little puzzled at the puerile and vicious nature of Political debate both on this forum but also in American Political life.
In fact I would argue there is no political debate but only mud slinging, and personal attacks. I see very little in terms of real facts, statistics and issues being debated in a mature, intelligent way with knowledge of the issues and a genuine desire to move forward. It all seems to be about personality and personal attacks pretty much.
Which is why I bowed out of this forum more or less. I find the whole thing childish and churlish and the level and tone of so called "discussions" feels more like a boxing match than a reasoned dialogue. Which means that until this ceases there will never be a way forward towards proper constructive measures who whatever issues ail the country. It is bad enough in most of Europe but America takes politics to a new low and really does scrape the bottom of the barrel pandering to the lowest common denominator when it comes to politics.
I don't get the feeling a lot of Americans are interested in current affairs, social and economic issues or politics at all but only in trying to score cheap point on petty issues rather than trying to face serious big ones in the face and trying to find a solution. It feels more like a playground both in real politics and the online debates.
A sort of "nah, nah, nah,nah"... Utterly pointless , intellectually disingenuous and totally counter-productive. I often feel I am looking at 3 year olds throwing their own faeces at the opposition.
We are all in a mess but if all we can come up with is stupid personal attacks then there really is no hope at all.
Politics has to be at some level about some consensus, on some issues and genuine belief and concern for progress.
It sounds more like people are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces in the public arena and private debates too.
There is no dialogue only a shouting match and the one who screams the loudest seems to win. It truly is heartbreaking. Sounds more like petulant toddlers behaviour than adults trying to make a positive difference and effect forward changes for the population at large.
Politics is something which affects us ALL and I will never understand how much disrespect people afford it and how the democratic process we are lucky enough to have compared to so many other Nations is so badly abused and betrayed by petty self concerns.
The one thing which shocks me most about the American Political process though is how corrupted it is when it comes to Lobbyists. Their influence is quite frankly dangerous, nauseating and to me utterly unacceptable.
And I also find it bizarre that personality and looks seem to count more than gravitas, education , intelligence, knowledge, and probity.
It seems you will find it hard to be elected President unless you wear a little flag and make a show of your "Christianity" for example.
Also the sums required to win an Election in the US are absurd and obscene. A candidate should be able to stand whether he has billions or not a penny to his name , simply on the issues and his/her policies towards them.
Believe me it is bad enough in Europe and I know that ( one only has to look at a Buffoon like Berlusconi ) but America seems to take to a different level.
American Politics to me don't seem to be entirely about progress but about scoring points and that baffles me. And yes I do find it quite uncivilised. And it rather defeats the purpose of Politics which is not about self interest, petty scores to settle or personality wars but about issues which affect the people and how to best deal with a problem and find a long term solution. Politics is such an important topic and it is demeaned and dragged into the mud by both politicians and many people. Sullied by a lack of genuine interest.
There are numerous non americans that think we're a joke, or that there is something wrong with us. There are a lot of people that cannot understand why we're arguing about giving everyone heathcare. It would be debatable if we were a poor country, but the richest and most powerful country in the world doesn't care about helping its citizens? That's asinine and really shows how bad Americans and American politics are.
Every developed country has a crazy conservative that no one likes, but the united states has too many politicians like this and too many citizens like this. They laugh at the fact that we have a majority that believes 2000 year old fables and use that to determine politics as well.
I don't really care about what a bunch of morons who live under false freedom and are granted only privileges by their government think given that they are perfectly fine with only having privileges. As soon as they understand that the only function of government is to oppress behavior then I will start listening to them; however, the current view that healthcare is a right by promising the population the productivity of health care workers for free is dangerous because in order to fulfill the promise they also must promise to place health care workers in forced labor if the government can't pay for it. I think these ideas are dangerous and as soon as the wrong person is in charge this will be exploited to the max and Europe will have its next Hitler. Remember that Europe has been the most savage and bloody region of the world for centuries while the US is the worlds most stable region. They should seek advise from us and not the other way around. As soon as they want to become truely responsible and autonomous adults that don't have to beg the government for a permission slip in order to practice a right, they can move to the US.
There are numerous non americans that think we're a joke, or that there is something wrong with us. There are a lot of people that cannot understand why we're arguing about giving everyone heathcare. It would be debatable if we were a poor country, but the richest and most powerful country in the world doesn't care about helping its citizens? That's asinine and really shows how bad Americans and American politics are.
You think that it is perfectly acceptable to summarize the enormously complex issue of providing healthcare for over 300 million people to a soundbite of "but the richest and most powerful country in the world doesn't care about helping its citizens?"
That is an incredibly unintelligent argument.
Quote:
Every developed country has a crazy conservative that no one likes, but the united states has too many politicians like this and too many citizens like this. They laugh at the fact that we have a majority that believes 2000 year old fables and use that to determine politics as well.
The vast majority of human beings believe in a deity. And that includes those human beings that you claim are are laughing at us.
I remember sitting in a bar in Wisconsin in the early 1980s, talking politcis over a beer. There was a foreign guy there, I don't remember where he was from anymore. But I remember we asked him about some things. How did things work in his country, was it true what the politicans said?
Turned out it wasn't true what the politicans said. We believed him. Not the slick Washington guys in their suits. And thats changed.
I thought with the internet, it would become harder for politicans to lie. Now everyone could just log on, and get the real deal. Form scientists, farm workers, engineers and nurses. In many countries. That didn't happen. Instead, in America, it seems like people have retreated from the information, and prefer to believe the lawyers in DC. Instead of "don't know", its become "don't want to know".
The star example is the healthcare debate. Nobel-prize winning economists showed in the 1970s that heathcare is not well suited to market delivery. Americans who have lived in Europe say that health care in Europe is pretty damn good. Europeans say it works. Real-world results show it works. If someone doesn't get care, it makes headlines, and ministers are distressed. In spite of this -many Americans prefer to believe the politicans.
(Granted, many Europeans have difficulty wrapping their heads around the concept that not having health care is a relistic worry in America)
Political debate in America resembles nothing more than European football supporters debating the merits of their respective teams, neither willing to admit the opposition an inch,
I must admit being quite shocked and a little puzzled at the puerile and vicious nature of Political debate both on this forum but also in American Political life. In fact I would argue there is no political debate but only mud slinging, and personal attacks. I see very little in terms of real facts, statistics and issues being debated in a mature, intelligent way with knowledge of the issues and a genuine desire to move forward. It all seems to be about personality and personal attacks pretty much. Which is why I bowed out of this forum more or less. I find the whole thing childish and churlish and the level and tone of so called "discussions" feels more like a boxing match than a reasoned dialogue. Which means that until this ceases there will never be a way forward towards proper constructive measures who whatever issues ail the country. It is bad enough in most of Europe but America takes politics to a new low and really does scrape the bottom of the barrel pandering to the lowest common denominator when it comes to politics. I don't get the feeling a lot of Americans are interested in current affairs, social and economic issues or politics at all but only in trying to score cheap point on petty issues rather than trying to face serious big ones in the face and trying to find a solution. It feels more like a playground both in real politics and the online debates. A sort of "nah, nah, nah,nah"... Utterly pointless , intellectually disingenuous and totally counter-productive. I often feel I am looking at 3 year olds throwing their own faeces at the opposition. We are all in a mess but if all we can come up with is stupid personal attacks then there really is no hope at all. Politics has to be at some level about some consensus, on some issues and genuine belief and concern for progress. It sounds more like people are willing to cut off their noses to spite their faces in the public arena and private debates too. There is no dialogue only a shouting match and the one who screams the loudest seems to win. It truly is heartbreaking. Sounds more like petulant toddlers behaviour than adults trying to make a positive difference and effect forward changes for the population at large. Politics is something which affects us ALL and I will never understand how much disrespect people afford it and how the democratic process we are lucky enough to have compared to so many other Nations is so badly abused and betrayed by petty self concerns. The one thing which shocks me most about the American Political process though is how corrupted it is when it comes to Lobbyists. Their influence is quite frankly dangerous, nauseating and to me utterly unacceptable. And I also find it bizarre that personality and looks seem to count more than gravitas, education , intelligence, knowledge, and probity. It seems you will find it hard to be elected President unless you wear a little flag and make a show of your "Christianity" for example. Also the sums required to win an Election in the US are absurd and obscene. A candidate should be able to stand whether he has billions or not a penny to his name , simply on the issues and his/her policies towards them. Believe me it is bad enough in Europe and I know that ( one only has to look at a Buffoon like Berlusconi ) but America seems to take to a different level. American Politics to me don't seem to be entirely about progress but about scoring points and that baffles me. And yes I do find it quite uncivilised. And it rather defeats the purpose of Politics which is not about self interest, petty scores to settle or personality wars but about issues which affect the people and how to best deal with a problem and find a long term solution. Politics is such an important topic and it is demeaned and dragged into the mud by both politicians and many people. Sullied by a lack of genuine interest.
Whatever. We can beat you in a war. In fact, we have.
Do our discussions educate and enlighten you? Or do they make us look like an uncivilized people?
Europeans think American politics is a comedy show without any substance. Most of our politicians would have to look for new employment in Europe after their first speech.
I find the extremist religious right influence in the GOP really scary.
I find the extremist Left in the democrat party every bit as scary.
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