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Old 01-16-2012, 09:22 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
In Europe, they have had high taxes on gasoline for decades and the result is that they are far less dependent upon foreign oil than the U.S.

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
:
You realize Denmark has the highest electric rates in the Western world? Do you really thing electric rates 4X what they are now would be a good thing?
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:26 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
Good. Raise it 50 cents. Gas prices are way too cheap in the US. Use the extra money that we get to fix our crumbling bridges. If gas prices keep going up, I think there will also be more demand for natural gas vehicles.
While I can agree the gas tax needs to be raised as long as every penny of it goes to roads and bridges this will increase the cost of production. It's not a revenue stream for the government.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valerie d View Post
Windmills are impressive where their is sustained wind to support them. Why did our texas oilman Mr. Pickens abandon the idea, must be something in the numbers. In Europe they drive death traps.

Why do beaurocrats always believe they can tax us into prosperity?

We need to transform about 50% of our auto fleet to natural gas, -that is the ticket. We need to immediately suspend use of corn to produce ethanol and groceries will go down to more than make up for the cost of gasoline. What nit wit group of politicians believe a $6.50 bushel of corn can efficiently produce a $3.50 a gallon fuel? Incredible logic!
Pickens abandoned the idea because he couldn't get political support. For wind to work, it requires revamping the electrical grid, which there isn't any support to do.

However, wind is only one alternative. The main point is that government can move public goals through tax policy and should. Right now, it's a goal to reduce oil imports from hostile nations. To do that the easiest way is reduce consumption. To do that we need to use more efficient vehicles. Yet, we find that the price of efficient hybrid and electric cars are not selling because the price of gasoline is too low.

Well, we can slowly raise the national tax and make efficient vehicles more attractive, the proceeds to go towards other energy endeavors.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,951,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You realize Denmark has the highest electric rates in the Western world? Do you really thing electric rates 4X what they are now would be a good thing?
If you read the column, you would have learned that:
Quote:
There is little whining here about Denmark having $10-a-gallon gasoline because of high energy taxes.
...
“I have observed that in all other countries, including in America, people are complaining about how prices of [gasoline] are going up,” Denmark’s prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, told me. “The cure is not to reduce the price, but, on the contrary, to raise it even higher to break our addiction to oil. We are going to introduce a new tax reform in the direction of even higher taxation on energy and the revenue generated on that will be used to cut taxes on personal income — so we will improve incentives to work and improve incentives to save energy and develop renewable energy.”
First, Denmark's intentionally raised taxes on energy to reduce consumption and provide incentives to make products more energy efficient.

Second, Denmark didn't raise rates overnight. They gradually raised them as not to produce a shock. Slowly raising taxes on energy in the U.S. would be a long-term boom.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:56 AM
 
812 posts, read 595,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Pickens abandoned the idea because he couldn't get political support. For wind to work, it requires revamping the electrical grid, which there isn't any support to do.

However, wind is only one alternative. The main point is that government can move public goals through tax policy and should. Right now, it's a goal to reduce oil imports from hostile nations. To do that the easiest way is reduce consumption. To do that we need to use more efficient vehicles. Yet, we find that the price of efficient hybrid and electric cars are not selling because the price of gasoline is too low.

Well, we can slowly raise the national tax and make efficient vehicles more attractive, the proceeds to go towards other energy endeavors.
How about the gasoline taxes they are already getting. Where are those proceeds going. Give a politician a dime he will spend a quarter to pad the pockets of his criminal partners and fund his reelection. To believe raising taxes is a step toward energy independence is a fools dream. To believe electric cars and hybrids make a difference and that solar makes a difference is a fools dream.
We need to revamp our infrastructure to include our number one natural resource natural gas. We need to get government out of the business of subsidizing anything and out of the business of raising taxes.
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Old 01-16-2012, 09:59 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The main point is that government can move public goals through tax policy and should. Right now, it's a goal to reduce oil imports from hostile nations.
What if we could do that and decrease prices? Doesn't that make more sense?

For example coal to liquid fuel tech could easily compete with conventional oil right now. Investment is risky because of the volatile conventional oil market. If the government were to guarantee them somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 a barrel then the investment is no longer risky.

This would lower the cost of conventional oil and secure a domestic resource.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:05 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Originally Posted by valerie d View Post
We need to revamp our infrastructure to include our number one natural resource natural gas.
I wouldn't disagree that NG is great alternative to oil since it can be used in vehicles but "number one natural resource" is a bit of stretch to the best of my knowledge. To add to that it's really cheap now because of the rapid increase in production but that's not going to last forever either. People switching heating options are going to go with NG and if you start using it in cars that's another strain on the supply. It's inevitable the cost of NG will rise in the not so distant future.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:05 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,139,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MNTroy View Post
And it should remain that way.
Then energy shouldn't be oil and gasoline.

I support the EPA. If something we do is destructive, it must be curtailed. If it's more expensive, we will have to deal with it. How much more expensive will gas need to get before people say "Please, we need to start using alternatives!"

Oh, but the alternatives are so expensive and they won't work fast enough to solve our problems! So what? You sided with the oil companies who have made deliberate efforts to discredit all the alternatives to keep their profits flowing.

Time to turn out the lights, reuse rather than toss water bottles, and live nearer to where we work.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:08 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
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Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post

Time to turn out the lights, reuse rather than toss water bottles, and live nearer to where we work.

It's amazing to me that you would consider lowering our standard of living a worthy goal.
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Old 01-16-2012, 10:17 AM
 
812 posts, read 595,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I wouldn't disagree that NG is great alternative to oil since it can be used in vehicles but "number one natural resource" is a bit of stretch to the best of my knowledge. To add to that it's really cheap now because of the rapid increase in production but that's not going to last forever either. People switching heating options are going to go with NG and if you start using it in cars that's another strain on the supply. It's inevitable the cost of NG will rise in the not so distant future.

Reuters) - The United States has over 100 years worth of natural gas supplies, and forecasters have consistently low-balled the amount of the clean-burning fuel trapped in unconventional places like shale rock, an industry group said on Wednesday.
Total U.S. recoverable supplies amount to 2,247 trillion cubic feet, or 118 years worth of supply at current production levels.

How about that..Mr. Fung! Just kidding been wanting to use that OJ trial line.

I believe in 100 years smart tax raisers should be able to get it all figured out!
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