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This is such a load of c**p! Now Jane Fonda and Walter Cronkite are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths of American soldiers? Wow.
I was in SE Asia for a couple of years in the late ‘60s and my Dad was there for 2 years in Vietnam a couple of years before me. I had friends die there as did he. It didn’t take many “discussions” with Cambodians and Laotians to understand that the US would NEVER have been allowed a de facto colony in SE Asia. The Russians and Chinese permitting such a thing? Get real.
The corruption in SE Asia by Americans and various other nations was grotesque, despicable, and mind-boggling in its extent. And on top of that we were in an area in which nobody was worried about nuclear weapons being used because the US would have become the world’s pariah had they been used. And then America would have to be dealt with using the many thousands of nuclear weapons spread all around the world even then.
The nations of SE Asia were prepared to throw MILLIONS of soldiers for as many DECADES as it took to make us end our aggression and get us out of their part of the world—where we did not belong. Envision hordes of militaries from various nations coming to our shores if you want some idea of their feelings on the subject.
And of course there is the aftermath from withdrawing our forces that people seem to be unable to keep from mentioning, i.e. the killing fields. That tragedy was created by those people declaring themselves as “sympathizers” because we were there “spreading democracy” and were then known and targeted. Had we not been there to begin with, how many millions might still be alive?
Now our so-called leadership in our government has done it again. Now we have a gigantic mess. Now we’ll have to develop some method of extricating ourselves and not leave an even bigger mess.
THERE IS ZERO POSSIBILITY THAT I WILL EVER REFRAIN FROM VOICING MY STRONG OBJECTIONS ABOUT ANY SUBJECT AT ANY TIME AND AT ANY PLACE!!!!! I’m an American and there is not a soul on this planet who could possibly prove more patriotism than I possess. More than 70% of my fellow citizens DO NOT WANT THIS IRAQ DEBACLE TO CONTINUE. We’re watching closely to ensure that this thing is ended in the best way possible and finally learn we are not world rulers. Got it, all you pro-war types?
So you met some dedicated communists and sympathized with them. Big whoop. Are you forgetting that they were the folks who were trying to kill your father -- and me (I was there in 1967-68 in the infantry)? Are you seriously arguing that living permanently in Marxist dictatorships was a positive fate for Southeast Asia? Are you neglecting to consider the boat people who desperately escaped from the hell-hole that Vietnam became in 1975? Are you actually arguing that the current regimes in those countries are not infinitely more corrupt -- today, right now -- than anything that happened during the US actions there?
I saw atrocities, with my own eyes, committed by the NVA and VC, that you would never comprehend and I can never forget. The level of support given to the NVA by Fonda, Hayden, and the rest -- Americans supporting the enemies of my country and actively working for the deaths of me and my friends -- how can you call those people anything else than traitors?
You speak of how you will continue to voice your opinions on any subject at any time. Have you ever considered that many people in Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea would dearly love to have the luxury you possess?
Yes -- you are free to say what you wish when you wish where you wish, here in America. Shout it to the rooftops.
But don't forget who fought -- yes, and died -- to give you that right. Their sons are fighting still, and will continue to do so -- in Iraq or wherever America seeks to right wrongs and bring freedom to those who have never known the blessings you crow about -- and that we all enjoy as Americans.
So you met some dedicated communists and sympathized with them. Big whoop. Are you forgetting that they were the folks who were trying to kill your father -- and me (I was there in 1967-68 in the infantry)? Are you seriously arguing that living permanently in Marxist dictatorships was a positive fate for Southeast Asia? Are you neglecting to consider the boat people who desperately escaped from the hell-hole that Vietnam became in 1975? Are you actually arguing that the current regimes in those countries are not infinitely more corrupt -- today, right now -- than anything that happened during the US actions there?
I saw atrocities, with my own eyes, committed by the NVA and VC, that you would never comprehend and I can never forget. The level of support given to the NVA by Fonda, Hayden, and the rest -- Americans supporting the enemies of my country and actively working for the deaths of me and my friends -- how can you call those people anything else than traitors?
You speak of how you will continue to voice your opinions on any subject at any time. Have you ever considered that many people in Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea would dearly love to have the luxury you possess?
Yes -- you are free to say what you wish when you wish where you wish, here in America. Shout it to the rooftops.
But don't forget who fought -- yes, and died -- to give you that right. Their sons are fighting still, and will continue to do so -- in Iraq or wherever America seeks to right wrongs and bring freedom to those who have never known the blessings you crow about -- and that we all enjoy as Americans.
Yeah, I was one of those "who fought [...] to give [me] that right" and so was my Dad. And I know all about atrocities. The bump you get from a fall of a high horse can hurt awhile so it's best not to climb up and throw a leg over to begin with.
You're not very imaginative if you haven't been able to consider the likely scenario had we stayed out of there. SE Asia is now a hotbed of customer/supplier relationships. Do you not think it could have happened much sooner had we not created THAT debacle? Communism will always eventually fail. We've turned away from Democratic-Republicanism and need to turn it around so that all other nations in the world will have a nation to admire and to emulate. Applying force to achieve that stature will have the opposite effect. Best to learn that lesson very soon.
So you met some dedicated communists and sympathized with them. Big whoop. Are you forgetting that they were the folks who were trying to kill your father -- and me (I was there in 1967-68 in the infantry)? Are you seriously arguing that living permanently in Marxist dictatorships was a positive fate for Southeast Asia? Are you neglecting to consider the boat people who desperately escaped from the hell-hole that Vietnam became in 1975? Are you actually arguing that the current regimes in those countries are not infinitely more corrupt -- today, right now -- than anything that happened during the US actions there?
I saw atrocities, with my own eyes, committed by the NVA and VC, that you would never comprehend and I can never forget. The level of support given to the NVA by Fonda, Hayden, and the rest -- Americans supporting the enemies of my country and actively working for the deaths of me and my friends -- how can you call those people anything else than traitors?
You speak of how you will continue to voice your opinions on any subject at any time. Have you ever considered that many people in Vietnam, Laos, and Kampuchea would dearly love to have the luxury you possess?
Yes -- you are free to say what you wish when you wish where you wish, here in America. Shout it to the rooftops.
But don't forget who fought -- yes, and died -- to give you that right. Their sons are fighting still, and will continue to do so -- in Iraq or wherever America seeks to right wrongs and bring freedom to those who have never known the blessings you crow about -- and that we all enjoy as Americans.
Your comment is as touching as it is irrelevant. Leaders LOVE it. They get away with flawed (tragically flawed) policies while Americans die and critics get the blamed. What a deal. Nothing you said changes the fact that our foreign policy (war) relating to Vietnam was misguided (I’m being kind). It is criminal that such flawed policies continued for so long and so many died because of it.
It is tragic how awful so many countries in that region are in the treatment of their citizens, but it was not good strategy for us to be there. History demonstrated that, and yet the attacks of critics continues. Of course what Jane Fonda did was absolutely wrong.
However, the venom towards her should be multiplied and aimed at those in government who made these awful decisions. I can see why veterans and others would be upset with her - but they are missing the much bigger picture, by not directing their anger and frustration at the political “leaders” who – again made such pathetic foreign policy decisions and additionally created such a heated divisive environment that frustrated Americans like Fonda to go over the edge and make such awful decisions as well.
Yeah, I was one of those "who fought [...] to give [me] that right" and so was my Dad. And I know all about atrocities. The bump you get from a fall of a high horse can hurt awhile so it's best not to climb up and throw a leg over to begin with.
You're not very imaginative if you haven't been able to consider the likely scenario had we stayed out of there. SE Asia is now a hotbed of customer/supplier relationships. Do you not think it could have happened much sooner had we not created THAT debacle? Communism will always eventually fail. We've turned away from Democratic-Republicanism and need to turn it around so that all other nations in the world will have a nation to admire and to emulate. Applying force to achieve that stature will have the opposite effect. Best to learn that lesson very soon.
Thanks for your service.
Speaking of "likely scenario(s) if we'd stayed out of there": you don't suppose they might have included keeping the marxists firmly in power in the Soviet Union, and giving Deng second thoughts about liberalizing China, do you? Or perhaps emboldening North Korea and its Chinese friends to absorb all of Korea?
Do you honestly believe that anything will make Islamic nations "emulate and admire" America? Theyll never love us. Better that they should fear us.
Thank you as well. Glad you survived that sh*t-smelling deathtrap.
But don't forget who fought -- yes, and died -- to give you that right.
I know who you’re talking about, those true revolutionaries who were actually fighting for America’s freedoms and inalienable rights back around the 1776. Today’s soldier is not fighting for my right or my freedoms. They are being used by an administration trying to defend their foreign policy.
Their sons are fighting still, and will continue to do so -- in Iraq or wherever America seeks to right wrongs and bring freedom to those who have never known the blessings you crow about -- and that we all enjoy as Americans.
Puh-lease. You actually believe this war was ever about "righting wrongs"... or bringing freedom to people who never knew it? God, I wish I could be that naive.... I'd be a lot happier of a person.
And it's amazing to me how any Vietnam vet could stand behind this "war" given the fact the people who started it weaseled thier way out of serving during Vietnam. Just on that alone, you would think you guys would hate these bastards for sending Americans in harms way when they themselves were obviously too spineless to fight 35-40 years ago.
Speaking of "likely scenario(s) if we'd stayed out of there": you don't suppose they might have included keeping the marxists firmly in power in the Soviet Union, and giving Deng second thoughts about liberalizing China, do you? Or perhaps emboldening North Korea and its Chinese friends to absorb all of Korea?
Do you honestly believe that anything will make Islamic nations "emulate and admire" America? Theyll never love us. Better that they should fear us.
Thank you as well. Glad you survived that sh*t-smelling deathtrap.
Wasn't that smell something? I've been unable to find the right words to describe it to people so they get an inkling of how putrid it was. When I first stepped off the plane over there, the heat/humidity and THAT SMELL hit me like the heel of a hand to the chin.
The speculation about various scenarios that might have been has made some very interesting discussions in the past in which I've been involved. Who can say for certain. But making war on people to get them to come around isn't going to work anymore. Bad regimes can be taken down in other ways that will have lasting positive results. Beating on people to make them come around only gets temporary acquiescence at best--while they find ways for maximum retribution. I know that’s what I’d do.
Wasn't that smell something? I've been unable to find the right words to describe it to people so they get an inkling of how putrid it was. When I first stepped off the plane over there, the heat/humidity and THAT SMELL hit me like the heel of a hand to the chin.
The speculation about various scenarios that might have been has made some very interesting discussions in the past in which I've been involved. Who can say for certain. But making war on people to get them to come around isn't going to work anymore. Bad regimes can be taken down in other ways that will have lasting positive results. Beating on people to make them come around only gets temporary acquiescence at best--while they find ways for maximum retribution. I know that’s what I’d do.
If war insn't going to work with religious fanatics who think all infidels are tools of the devil and paradise can only come through martydom, what is the alternative?
How about total war? That's what it took with the Nazis and the Japanese imperialists. And they came around.
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