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If war insn't going to work with religious fanatics who think all infidels are tools of the devil and paradise can only come through martydom, what is the alternative?
How about total war? That's what it took with the Nazis and the Japanese imperialists. And they came around.
I hope you’re kidding. Total war, with all the nuclear capabilities around the world, and so many nations who already believe America is out to conquer the world and “spread (neoconservative) democracy” to any nation the rulers of America decide must have it?
Yeah, my friend, I hope you’re kidding. This is 2007 not 1945 when America was the sole superpower. If China stops holding our markers and calls them in plus the vig, we’ll have major economic problems that will make any aspirations of even being a highly-regarded trading partner an improbability, never mind world-conquerors.
I respect everyone who wore the uniform. I wore the uniform, my father wore the uniform, my brothers wear the uniform and one recently came back from Iraq.
Of course troops that get put in harm's way want to think they are serving a good purpose. And in Iraq and Vietnam, I am sure there are many victories that our troops are involved in that are helping the lives of people that live over there.
That doesn't mean however that I am required to buy hook line and sinker the BS of this or any administration, or believe that the harm that has been done through this action - in terms of Amereican blood and treasure - and in terms of the repercussions it is causing and will cause for many years in the Islamic world - validates this invasion and occupation, because let's get down to it, that is what it is.
And I don't have to sell my intelligence and integrity to be forced to swallow the tripe that any military action by our country is for our Freedom. Well, no. It is for oil and global presence and a lot of other less noble sounding objectives.
I hope you’re kidding. Total war, with all the nuclear capabilities around the world, and so many nations who already believe America is out to conquer the world and “spread (neoconservative) democracy” to any nation the rulers of America decide must have it?
Yeah, my friend, I hope you’re kidding. This is 2007 not 1945 when America was the sole superpower. If China stops holding our markers and calls them in plus the vig, we’ll have major economic problems that will make any aspirations of even being a highly-regarded trading partner an improbability, never mind world-conquerors.
China needs us more than we need her. She makes the trinkets, and we buy them, remember? What, she's going to kill her best customer -- and do what, eat the tainted dogfood?
I really wish that I could blame protesters for an increase in American soldiers' death but I can't....I will say that their activities while well intentioned certainly don't help the fighting Men and Women in harm's way......Now prolonging war......If I am an opponent and see that the citizenry of a nation is not behind its military forces I might feel more motivated to continue fighting.....Look at Viet Nam.....The VC and NVA gained encouragement by the widespread protest of that War. I remember as a Viet Nam veteran that as the level of protest hit the airwaves the more bold were the VC and NVA...also the intensity of the attacks increased. The only time it lessened was when President Nixon stepped up the bombing of the North...The North Vietnamese chain of command was getting a little nervous because the President was ordering the bombing to include their "Safe Homes." Nixon was a good wartime president by the way.
I remember how it used to tick me off because for better or worse I was there and the protesters were not...They had no idea what it was like...The only protester I can respect is a Vet who was there...That Vet can sound off.
The rest? I can't print it here.
Protesters are within their rights to oppose anything here in America....This is one of our Nation's strengths....... Just remember that this activity does embolden those who would kill our sons and daughters.
Spiritwalker
i am a financial protestor. wars cost money. lots of it.
with job exportation and monster national debt. yeah i wana protest that.
now if you can do this at a reasonable cost i am all for it.
i dont have a problem with your morals just your spending habits.
stephen s
san diego
China needs us more than we need her. She makes the trinkets, and we buy them, remember? What, she's going to kill her best customer -- and do what, eat the tainted dogfood?
Won't happen.
If we decide on total war as you suggest, it "won't happen"? Come on, man. China has lots of customers who DON'T want total war.
I think maybe you're pulling my chain. I haven't gotten into a discussion in many--MANY--years with anyone who thought that to be an endeavor with any chance of even partial success. If you ARE serious, then you're still thinking of America as a nation with lots of "pull" when it comes to world-conquering. It becomes less of a possibility with every day we spend in Iraq and making noises about invading Iran--and any other country the masters of the plutocracy are interested in dominating.
We're not what we used to be in the eyes of others around the world. We can read all about it in their newspapers and discuss it at their many blogs. We got troubles.
I respect everyone who wore the uniform. I wore the uniform, my father wore the uniform, my brothers wear the uniform and one recently came back from Iraq.
Of course troops that get put in harm's way want to think they are serving a good purpose. And in Iraq and Vietnam, I am sure there are many victories that our troops are involved in that are helping the lives of people that live over there.
That doesn't mean however that I am required to buy hook line and sinker the BS of this or any administration, or believe that the harm that has been done through this action - in terms of Amereican blood and treasure - and in terms of the repercussions it is causing and will cause for many years in the Islamic world - validates this invasion and occupation, because let's get down to it, that is what it is.
And I don't have to sell my intelligence and integrity to be forced to swallow the tripe that any military action by our country is for our Freedom. Well, no. It is for oil and global presence and a lot of other less noble sounding objectives.
What you say is true. But our freedom to enjoy the lives that we live is based on things like oil and global presence. Unless you don't own a car, or use paint, prescription drugs, polyester of any kind, plastics, etc., you depend on the products that come to this country through the strength of our standing in the world. No one gives us this stuff. We have to fight for the right to buy it in free markets. That may not sound idealistic, but it's reality. Power buys freedom. Give away or shirk your power, and the world will walk all over you. Ask those poor people in Darfur.
What you say is true. But our freedom to enjoy the lives that we live is based on things like oil and global presence. Unless you don't own a car, or use paint, prescription drugs, polyester of any kind, plastics, etc., you depend on the products that come to this country through the strength of our standing in the world. No one gives us this stuff. We have to fight for the right to buy it in free markets. That may not sound idealistic, but it's reality. Power buys freedom. Give away or shirk your power, and the world will walk all over you. Ask those poor people in Darfur.
OK, now we are getting somewhere. I buy that, to an extent.
This brings us past all the BS of the administration and their "Evildoer and Extremists that hate our Freedoms" talk. We are in Iraq for geopolitical reasons. We thought it would be easy, we would have a nice base smack in the middle of the Middle East to get cheap oil for years to come, and Bush decided to exaggerate the threat of Saddam and use the emotion of 9/11 to get the country behind it. Bush also in his delusions of grandeur thought he could just set up a little democratic oasis in the sea of Islamic hardasses and make a nice little footnote for himself in history.
OK, now we are getting somewhere. I buy that, to an extent.
This brings us past all the BS of the administration and their "Evildoer and Extremists that hate our Freedoms" talk. We are in Iraq for geopolitical reasons. We thought it would be easy, we would have a nice base smack in the middle of the Middle East to get cheap oil for years to come, and Bush decided to exaggerate the threat of Saddam and use the emotion of 9/11 to get the country behind it. Bush also in his delusions of grandeur thought he could just set up a little democratic oasis in the sea of Islamic hardasses and make a nice little footnote for himself in history.
So let's just come out and say it.
Wow, what a huge strawman! Were you in northern Nevada over the weekend, or something?
To accept that there are strategic geopolitical reasons for conflict does nothing to diminish the justice of defeating tyranny and oppression.
Ask yourself: were we or were we not defending our oil imports (and those of Europe) when we went to war against imperial Japan? Of course we were. But we were ALSO eliminating a militaristic culture that badly needed to be expunged.
Mightn't the same be true in the Middle East?
I assure you that the same European countries who belittle our efforts in Iraq and our firmness with Iran will be first in line to kow-tow to the terrorists in the former and the mullahs in the latter.
And for this WE are to be denigrated and accused of cynicism?
Wow, what a huge strawman! Were you in northern Nevada over the weekend, or something?
To accept that there are strategic geopolitical reasons for conflict does nothing to diminish the justice of defeating tyranny and oppression.
Ask yourself: were we or were we not defending our oil imports (and those of Europe) when we went to war against imperial Japan? Of course we were. But we were ALSO eliminating a militaristic culture that badly needed to be expunged.
Mightn't the same be true in the Middle East?
I assure you that the same European countries who belittle our efforts in Iraq and our firmness with Iran will be first in line to kow-tow to the terrorists in the former and the mullahs in the latter.
And for this WE are to be denigrated and accused of cynicism?
No way.
You would compare Imperial Japan, who along with the Nazi Germany and others were intent on total war to take control of the world, to Iraq and Iran? Have you lost it or what?
We aren't going to be permitted to control the world's resources by warring on every nation that doesn't want to kow-tow to America. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
Last edited by happyappy; 09-04-2007 at 06:31 PM..
But don't forget who fought -- yes, and died -- to give you that right. Their sons are fighting still, and will continue to do so -- in Iraq or wherever America seeks to right wrongs and bring freedom to those who have never known the blessings you crow about -- and that we all enjoy as Americans.
Neither the Vietnamese nor the Iraqis invaded America...they were wars of choice...
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