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Harrier, I'm curious to know if you still feel this is a "States rights" issue, even after I I showed you some of the approx 1000 Federal level rights, protections and benefits that come from being legally married?
If so, care to explain that opinion?
IMO, the bottom line is that this IS a Federal level issue and it needs to get before the SCOTUS as soon as possible. There is absolutely no legal basis to deny two consenting adults of the same sex the ability to enter into the marriage contract.
I answered your question already - I don't feel like going back and finding the exact post number - but I am sure that you are capable of doing so.
Infertility means not being able to get pregnant after one year of trying (or six months if a woman is 35 or older).
It does not mean they can never have a baby, just that it takes a few tries. It is physically and medically impossible for two men to ever make a baby together, which is why the institution of marriage is not for them.
Where do marriage laws state procreation is a requirement to get married? You're applying an arbitrary requirement on marriage that no legal body requires.
Marriage was originally a business contract to transfer property (the woman) from father to husband.
Shall we return to the original purpose of marriage, and make all women Chattel again?
ok, so it is ok to "persuade" others against their will? Your selective reasoning is noted. As far as being treated differently under the law??? Can you provide some specifics? If your presumption is correct then people would be asked whether they are gay or not. Perhaps there should be a label on a drivers license for "gay" or straight?
If we are indeed treating homosexuals differently, then we should stop. But, how do we know whether or not someone is homosexual? I don't see how policemen can enforce this discrimination against gay people without knowing who is gay.
So, tell me hammer... how can I tell whether a person is homosexual or not?
Why would you need to know? Gays are legally incapable of marrying one another. Obviously if 2 women go down to the Courthouse seeking a marriage license, the Court will know they are likely gay, and by law will be forced to deny them that license.
That is clear discrimination on the basis of sex, which is a violation of the 14th Amendment.
Excellent point. Also - what about couples (like me and my wife) that are perfectly capable of procreating, but simply choose not to? Should we not have been allowed to marry, since the sole purpose of marriage is to foster procreation?
According to Wapasha, your marriage needs to be dissolved immediately.
Fiyero: We have laws to protect ALL citizens. Bullying, murder, etc. are applicable to ALL citizens. When you start providing special laws for gays or other protected special interest groups then you have a problem. Why don't we enforce the laws when crimes are committed? Bullying is wrong no matter who is involved. No special "rights"!!!
We do. However, under our legal system, one of the primary components required in a criminal case is Mens Rea (Mental Intent). The intent of the crime affects the sentencing and how the courts handle it.
That's why we have different degrees of crimes, and it's why judges can hear mitigating circumstances to reduce sentencing, or aggravating circumstances to increase it.
Murdering a kid because he's gay or black has a much stronger and more malicious Mens Rea, than killing someone over a drug deal gone bad. A judge is not likely to sentence them the same.
I was bullied as a child. I would look at the signs around school referring to "minorities" and wondered - "could I be a minority" - these bullies don't seem to like me very much. So I walked up to a counselor and asked "What is a minority". I was told that it was anyone who wasn't a white, Christian, heterosexual male. So I learned how to fight and started to hit those bullies back. They left me alone after that.
Matthew 5:39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
If you are going to cite the Bible - you should read the entire volume instead of cherrypicking certain verses. You would then understand that the Bible in no way supports your position that homosexuality is a normal lifestyle.
You guys cherry pick the Bible, why can't I? And I assure you I know more about the Bible's position on so called "homosexuality" than you do.
You are forced to cherry pick and remove certain verses from context to support your position.
ok, so it is ok to "persuade" others against their will? Your selective reasoning is noted.
I don't have any clue what you're talking about here.
Quote:
As far as being treated differently under the law??? Can you provide some specifics?
If we are indeed treating homosexuals differently, then we should stop.
Sure. This is an easy one. The simplest examples are the marriage laws in most states. They specifically ban gay couples from getting married thereby denying gay couples the 1400 or so joint rights that come with civil marriage that straight couples are entitled to receive. There are also several states that explicitly ban gay people from adopting children (I think 5 or 6). Until this year the military banned gay people serving. Until 2002, 14 states still banned gay people from having sex with each other. Many states use to ban gay people from being school teachers. The US Federal government use to have a law banning the employment of gay people in government
Now, consider the gay people in the US with the most rights. Imagine two couples legally married in New York - one a man-man gay couple and the other a man-women straight couple:
If a member of the straight marriage is foreign, he is entitled to a spousal immigration visa. If a member of the gay marriage is foreign, he is not, and is subject to deportation.
If a member of each marriage is in the military, the straight one will get paid more - he gets a family housing bonus the gay family is denied. Also, whereas the straight spouse can shop at the base commissary and PX, the gay spouse cannot.
If one member of each marriage owns a business and employs his spouse, the gay man pays higher taxes. He has to pay unemployment insurance tax on his spouses wages whereas the straight man is exempt from paying that tax on his wife's wages.
If one member of each marriage dies, the straight survivor is entitled to social security survivor benefits. The gay survivor is not.
And on and on and on. I'd call that different treatment under the law, wouldn't you.
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But, how do we know whether or not someone is homosexual?
If your presumption is correct then people would be asked whether they are gay or not. Perhaps there should be a label on a drivers license for "gay" or straight?
I don't see how policemen can enforce this discrimination against gay people without knowing who is gay.
So, tell me hammer... how can I tell whether a person is homosexual or not?
Well, we could do what cops did in the old days. Just head down to the gay bar with the press in tow, knock some heads, arrest everybody, and publish their pictures in the paper.
Another interesting quirk in the law deals with anti-discrimination statutes. Everywhere in the US it would be illegal for a gay man to put up a sign at his restaurant / his hiring office / his apartment that says "No Christians" - but in most places in the US it is perfectly legal for a Christian in the same circumstance to put up a "No Gay - Or Anyone I Think Might Be Gay Allowed" sign.
You guys cherry pick the Bible, why can't I? And I assure you I know more about the Bible's position on so called "homosexuality" than you do.
You are forced to cherry pick and remove certain verses from context to support your position.
Defend your position, then - using the Bible as a source.
And please cite an example of where I have ever used any Bible verse "out of context"?
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