Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because there is no way plant life existed on earth for even one second before the sun, let alone one day. For that matter, there is no way the earth existed without the sun.
both seem compatible...we evolved to a point and then bestowed with a soul
not enough facts to support big bang theory. probably more believe in creationism than evolution. Evolution has taken place but ther eis enough evidence to throw doubt on humans evolving from algae.
a puzzlement that schools refuse to teach both as most religions teach creationism and most people belong to a religious organization. So just culturally it should be compared. If a theory is so solid it would easily stand up to scrutiny, right? Science must be challenged continuosly in order to exist. So why not challenge it...either in history, science or social studies classes.
Why don't you think religion needs to be challenged as much as science?
there is no way the earth existed without the sun.
Not entirely true. The earth could have been a cold dead wandering planet before being captured by this solar system, but then it wouldn't be the earth as we know it and there would likely be no life on it had that been the case.
The question is, why would birds be more capable than insects, thus ensuring that birds would offset insects as the dominate sky predators?
What is the difference between an insect and a bird anyway?
From what I understand, the primary difference between birds and insects, is that insects tend to absorb oxygen through the skin, and are not able to maintain body temperature as well as birds. Thus enabling birds more capability in non-optimal weather, and in places with lowering oxygen levels.
If I recall, oxygen levels around those times were much higher than they are today, enabling insects to be much larger. And it was also much more consistently warm during those times as well, making insects more viable.
As for the creationist argument, you tend to base this on a time-table in Christianity, which speaks of the Earth being a set amount of years old. Which while the existence of certain prehistoric animals certainly seems to contradict creationist claims. You are really arguing less against creationism, but more against just Christian dogma.
The truth is, I don't believe there will ever be anything that humanity could ever produce to refute creationism, unless we can somehow replicate the power to create something out of nothing.
In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense at all for me to exist with my full consciousness as I do, for apparently no reason at all.
Things could exist without really being conscious, consciousness is not the same as simply being alive. Bacteria are alive. Insects are alive. Mice are alive. Dogs are alive. But none are really conscious, they just react to stimulus in the environment, similar to a computer.
While I tend to agree humans share a lot of components of these aforementioned organisms, you don't technically need to be conscious to appear to be conscious, and consciousness in regards to the fact that you are personally not only making decisions based on stimuli, but also that you are looking out of your own eyes and perceiving the world around you, makes absolutely no sense. Nor does the fact that anything actually exists at all to begin with.
We can of course have our own hypothesis' about what life and consciousness is and where it comes from. You choose to believe that life is just some random act of luck with absolutely no purpose at all.
I always consider this viewpoint in this way. If I was to have a big red button sitting on my desk, and when I pushed that button, all life would be destroyed instantly. Does it really matter if I press the button? Why?
Here we go! The simple stripped down version of creation- At the very start there was nothing- not even the void or near vacume of space...not a particle- not one single atom..there was NOTHING- okay we agree on that....This great NOTHING..lets call it GOD -second thought lets not. God can be less then nothing....So this nothing could have stayed nothing....no reason for it to change...seeing there was nothing to stimulate that nothing.
Some how this nothing made a decision - to make a decision it takes a thought or two. As we know nothing happens all by itself.
To have the thought to make a decision something some where had to be THINKING. The great nothing suddenly decided to be a SOMETHING...To come into being. The nothing could have stayed a nothing but as we all realize this was NOT the case.
This fits in well with the Big Bang theory..from something that was less than a pin point- that was a nothing- suddenly exploded and expanded into existence as we know it...
My premise is as such. For nothing to become something...a decision was made...and I repeat...the nothing could have stayed non-existent. This is some sort of miracle...to me it means that something out there is conscious....The universe thinks...Seeing we on this speck of dust with our little sculls full of grey electrified jello think.............it is pretty arrogant on our part to believe that all of eternity- the endless cosmos is not as smart as us...that is absurd.
Creation in the long run as we humans measure time- is simply adaptation- to adapt you have to think....Walking in the woods one day a burr got stuck on my pant cuff- It traveled for a mile or so till I plucked it off and tossed it aside- where it grew into a burr plant...That burr had a thought- all things that are alive think..it is a case of degree- For the burr to use me as a form of transport- took some thought- tiny as it may be...we underestimate consciousness of animals and plants...and some of us cringe at the thought that something like eternity may also think- that God thinks........
Some do not give credit to the common burr- nor do they want to give credit to the universe..that created itself..............................much as God did - and as we do- all of us create- we are all creationists.
The question is, why would birds be more capable than insects, thus ensuring that birds would offset insects as the dominate sky predators?
What is the difference between an insect and a bird anyway?
From what I understand, the primary difference between birds and insects, is that insects tend to absorb oxygen through the skin, and are not able to maintain body temperature as well as birds. Thus enabling birds more capability in non-optimal weather, and in places with lowering oxygen levels.
If I recall, oxygen levels around those times were much higher than they are today, enabling insects to be much larger. And it was also much more consistently warm during those times as well, making insects more viable.
As for the creationist argument, you tend to base this on a time-table in Christianity, which speaks of the Earth being a set amount of years old. Which while the existence of certain prehistoric animals certainly seems to contradict creationist claims. You are really arguing less against creationism, but more against just Christian dogma.
The truth is, I don't believe there will ever be anything that humanity could ever produce to refute creationism, unless we can somehow replicate the power to create something out of nothing.
In my mind, it makes absolutely no sense at all for me to exist with my full consciousness as I do, for apparently no reason at all.
Things could exist without really being conscious, consciousness is not the same as simply being alive. Bacteria are alive. Insects are alive. Mice are alive. Dogs are alive. But none are really conscious, they just react to stimulus in the environment, similar to a computer.
While I tend to agree humans share a lot of components of these aforementioned organisms, you don't technically need to be conscious to appear to be conscious, and consciousness in regards to the fact that you are personally not only making decisions based on stimuli, but also that you are looking out of your own eyes and perceiving the world around you, makes absolutely no sense. Nor does the fact that anything actually exists at all to begin with.
We can of course have our own hypothesis' about what life and consciousness is and where it comes from. You choose to believe that life is just some random act of luck with absolutely no purpose at all.
I always consider this viewpoint in this way. If I was to have a big red button sitting on my desk, and when I pushed that button, all life would be destroyed instantly. Does it really matter if I press the button? Why?
Evolutionary biology actually explains much of what you don't understand. There's nothing mysterious about it. Just because it's important to an individual that we have a specific purpose doesn't mean that purpose is real. I want the things I believe in to be true not comfortable. That allows me to make much better decisions. I actually think the fact that humans weren't designated with a "divine" purpose makes life that more wonderful/free. I choose my purpose and how I want to go about acheiving it.
As far as "creationism" specifically, it's a waste of time. Which creation myth are we talking about, there are 1000s of them and no evidence that any are true. If one chooses to just shoehorn in a god because they don't believe something can't come from nothing then all you've done is create an infinite regression of gods and/or completely discredit your premise. If the universe needs a cause then so does your god and so on. I think people need to grow up and invest in actually finding out what actually happened and not just making up and accepting what's easy and comfortable especially bronze age fairytales.
Here we go! The simple stripped down version of creation- At the very start there was nothing- not even the void or near vacume of space...not a particle- not one single atom..there was NOTHING- okay we agree on that....This great NOTHING..lets call it GOD -second thought lets not. God can be less then nothing....So this nothing could have stayed nothing....no reason for it to change...seeing there was nothing to stimulate that nothing.
Some how this nothing made a decision - to make a decision it takes a thought or two. As we know nothing happens all by itself.
To have the thought to make a decision something some where had to be THINKING. The great nothing suddenly decided to be a SOMETHING...To come into being. The nothing could have stayed a nothing but as we all realize this was NOT the case.
This fits in well with the Big Bang theory..from something that was less than a pin point- that was a nothing- suddenly exploded and expanded into existence as we know it...
My premise is as such. For nothing to become something...a decision was made...and I repeat...the nothing could have stayed non-existent. This is some sort of miracle...to me it means that something out there is conscious....The universe thinks...Seeing we on this speck of dust with our little sculls full of grey electrified jello think.............it is pretty arrogant on our part to believe that all of eternity- the endless cosmos is not as smart as us...that is absurd.
Creation in the long run as we humans measure time- is simply adaptation- to adapt you have to think....Walking in the woods one day a burr got stuck on my pant cuff- It traveled for a mile or so till I plucked it off and tossed it aside- where it grew into a burr plant...That burr had a thought- all things that are alive think..it is a case of degree- For the burr to use me as a form of transport- took some thought- tiny as it may be...we underestimate consciousness of animals and plants...and some of us cringe at the thought that something like eternity may also think- that God thinks........
Some do not give credit to the common burr- nor do they want to give credit to the universe..that created itself..............................much as God did - and as we do- all of us create- we are all creationists.
So what created this thinking being you've shoehorned in and on, and on, and on? And what evidence besides not currently having a better answer do you have? What's so wrong with saying I don't know? You know, I realize that's just the human ego. It's why we have so many creation myths, humans desperately need answers to everything to the point where we'll just make them up. Why not work to find real answers? What we learn in the process may bring greater reward than answering that final or first in this case answer.
Certain creationisms can and certain creationisms can't co-exist with the current understanding of many sciences.
actually creation and evolution can and do coexist, just that too many people on both sides of the argument are too blind to see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn
Because there is no way plant life existed on earth for even one second before the sun, let alone one day. For that matter, there is no way the earth existed without the sun.
this is true. in fact EVERYTHING in the universe is made from stars.
at some point, everyone believes in creation, because at some point the initial pieces need to be created before anything else can evolve.
as for the beginning of the universe as we know it today, perhaps it started in another dimension with a group of scientists trying to recreate the conditions of their own beginning of their universe with their own super collider, which lead to the beginning of our universe through multiple big bangs.
or perhaps a super massive star in another universe went hypernova, which not only created a black hole in that universe, but created a white hole in this universe, which is what we surmise is our big bang.
either way, someone had to be around at the very beginning to set things in motion. is it the christian, or other, "gods"? perhaps, perhaps not. i believe in the christian god myself. other believe in space aliens, and yet others will tell you that yes there was a supreme being, but he dies after setting things in motion. the only way any of us will know who is right is to actually die.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
