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Old 12-09-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,366,997 times
Reputation: 7990

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around 1830 there was a stream of visitors from Europe to the newly formed US, people like Alexis de Toqueville wishing to see for themselves what was going on over here.

Brit historian Paul Johnson noted that invariably these European visitors would sooner or later ask 'where are all the beggers?' There were apparently few of them in 19th century, libertarian (at least for white males) America.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:00 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,286,655 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73 View Post
That's not even the conclusion of the guy who wrote the article. Did you bother to read it. His basic message was that anti-poverty programs should avoid creating perverse incentives. He didn't label them all as failures or even most of them as failures
Typical quote mining from the right is all. Cherry pick one aspect of an article, and claim that's the entire crux of the argument.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,982 posts, read 22,163,168 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Well duh but the liberals insist these programs work. Give mom a check for questionable intellectual disabilities or misbehaving in school and guess what she's going to allow Johnny to continue to be a problem at school.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/op...Z4Y3nl0hQ&_r=0
While at the same time, other liberals are busy trying to undermine and marginalize marriage.

Maybe the reporter will write another article about how two years of guaranteed unemployment compensation leads to longer time between jobs, for too many people.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,286,655 times
Reputation: 5565
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Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
While at the same time, other liberals are busy trying to undermine and marginalize marriage.

Maybe the reporter will write another article about how two years of guaranteed unemployment compensation leads to longer time between jobs, for too many people.
I didn't realize your ability to get married was being undermined .
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,982 posts, read 22,163,168 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidkitty View Post
I didn't realize your ability to get married was being undermined .
Not the ability to marry, but the institution of marriage itself is being derided. It's all a part of the "if we make traditional marriage a pathetic enough thing, then gays can jump on board it too" agenda.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,286,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Not the ability to marry, but the institution of marriage itself is being derided. It's all a part of the "if we make traditional marriage a pathetic enough thing, then gays can jump on board it too" agenda.
The institution is a civil affair. Nothing is stopping you from trucking your ass down to your church for the religious aspect.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:32 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,807,980 times
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As a late teenager I had some significant exposure to the hills of Kentucky. What these people are doing may very well be economically optimum for them. The go to school...get a good job protocol does not work in that part of the world.

Stopping the welfare does little to help. Simply make the lives worse and more difficult and particularly harm the children involved.

There may well be actual solutions...but they will all have the same problem. They cost too much. You could provide special counseling to tightly supervise the recipients. You could provide special schooling with highly individualized instruction to rescue the children if not the parent. In worse cases you remove the children to a more supportive environment.

All costs lots of money and probably all will be abused. Poor folk ain't dumb.

So it may well be that minor tuning is the best course. Perhaps get a small decrease in the number of people involved in each generation.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,896,568 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Not the ability to marry, but the institution of marriage itself is being derided. It's all a part of the "if we make traditional marriage a pathetic enough thing, then gays can jump on board it too" agenda.

Heterosexuals have already destroyed the sanctity of marriage.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:43 PM
 
7,006 posts, read 6,996,400 times
Reputation: 7060
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
good find OP. Definitely surprises me to hear this kind of talking points coming from a Kristoff. I've been saying for years that when I think back to my school classes in the 60's nd 70's, there were only a small handful of kids who were incapable of making their way thru life independently. The number would have been less than 1%. These were the kids who were born with serious maladies and disabilities.

I like this quote from the article "The greatest challenge we face as educators is how to break that dependency on government. In second grade, they have a dream. In seventh grade, they have a plan.” "

This column could have come straight from Rush Limbaugh; it's the kind of thing that he says all the time.
Stop that you'll frighten the liberals. They think Limbaugh does nothing but call Obama a mooo-slim all day long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Heterosexuals have already destroyed the sanctity of marriage.
Liberal Hollywood celebrities have destroyed the sanctity of marriage. The perverted, warped value system of Hollywood has slowly trickled down to middle America.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:48 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,304,767 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Well duh but the liberals insist these programs work. Give mom a check for questionable intellectual disabilities or misbehaving in school and guess what she's going to allow Johnny to continue to be a problem at school.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/op...Z4Y3nl0hQ&_r=0
So I guess all these upper middle class suburban parents will now throw their twenty-something year olds out of the house and cut them off.
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