State-by-state murder rate map for 2011, and what it means: (illegal, borders, vs)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I was just trying to point out that there is more there than meets the eye. I was analyzing the murder rates on a more detailed level. I wasn't trying to sound ignorant or anything like that. I was actually trying to stop those who sound very ignorant.

Well, yeah, I get that. But even in cities, the murder rate varies by neighborhood. But you can't take a city out of a state.

[thanatos331]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Like I said, race isn't everything. Race is a correlation, but you have to look at the social factors. That is why I brought up Alaska and Nevada.

And New Mexico is not entirely Mexican. A large part of the population is Mexican, but not the entire population. And think about this. Texas, next door, has a much lower murder rate than New Mexico, with both large Hispanic and large Black populations. Houston, which has a large Black population, had a murder rate of 9.2 murders per 100,000 in 2011. Missouri City, TX, where Blacks are the largest ethnic group, has a low crime rate, and high median family income. Income and crime going hand in hand in this case.

Philadelphia, New Orleans, Chicago, and Detroit also have large numbers of Blacks living in poverty and in the projects. Louisiana and Mississippi have high levels of poverty among Blacks, as well as lower attainment of education. However, I will say this. Mississippi has one of the lowest Black murder rates in the nation, even though it has one of the highest murder rates in the nation. Louisiana has one of the highest Black murder rates in the nation. Mississippi has high numbers of Blacks living in rural areas, and Mississippi is the least urbanized state in the union. There are more Blacks living in rural areas than urban areas. No opportunity for gangs to reach those areas, as they would go to the urban areas. New Orleans is a hotbed of gang activity, so drugs go there. Same goes for Detroit, Philadelphia, Chicago, and other cities. Ask yourself this. Why don't Black gang members deal drugs in White areas?

Another case would be Virginia. Virginia has a similar number of Blacks as Maryland. However, think about this. All of the criminals who commit crimes, they prefer going to Prince George's County, Maryland than Virginia. Virginia has stricter laws(oddly, Maryland has the stricter gun laws). Maryland also has Baltimore. Virginia has a high number of Blacks, and a low Black murder rate. Maryland has a higher Black murder rate. Maryland has a higher murder rate over all.

And your "Blacks need more contraceptives" comment shows your level of ignorance. The Black birth rate is similar to the White birth rate. Black women are also more likely to get abortions than White women. The out of wedlock births, well, I can't say that isn't a major problem, because it is. However, why is it that this has skyrocketed since the 1970s? What has happened? Why has the out of wedlock birth rates for most ethnic groups in the USA has risen since the 1970s? What are the education and poverty levels of those who often have children out of wedlock.

If you were to adjust for poverty levels, education levels, out of wedlock birth rates, I would say the murder rates among the races would be similar, but we have no way of doing this.

The difference is that I think on a deeper level. I see the statistics, but I also look behind those statistics, and look deeper. I don't go on the "it's Black people", I ask what is causing such problems among certain segments of the Black population. I ask because this isn't everyone in the Black community committing these murders, it isn't the majority. I ask more questions because I know there is more than meets the eye. I see the maps, I see other stats, but stats don't always tell you everything.

I don't think poverty is the root cause of crime in black areas. If that were the case, then why isn't crime in predominately poor hispanic areas as prevalent as it is in black communities? Particularly southern california? If you look at annual income by race and ethnicity from the census you can see that there are significantly more hispanics who are living in poverty compared to blacks...yet hispanic dominated areas have significantly less crime than black areas.

Why is this?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by thanatos331

I don't think poverty is the root cause of crime in black areas. If that were the case, then why isn't crime in predominately poor hispanic areas as prevalent as it is in black communities? Particularly southern california? If you look at annual income by race and ethnicity from the census you can see that there are significantly more hispanics who are living in poverty compared to blacks...yet hispanic dominated areas have significantly less crime than black areas.

Why is this?

There are also lower unemployment rates among Hispanics than among Blacks. My point is that Black crimes rates are often worse because the places where they occur, Blacks are often living in the worst conditions. The difference is that there are more Hispanic-owned businesses than Black businesses. This is how it often works. Hispanics at large have lower poverty levels than Blacks.

Ask yourself this. Why is it that Bowie,MD 50% Black, and has a low crime rate? Perhaps it has alot to do with education levels, higher levels of employment, and it is a high income area.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, yeah, I get that. But even in cities, the murder rate varies by neighborhood. But you can't take a city out of a state.

It does vary by neighborhood, when you break it down to the city level.

[green_mariner]

These are top 10 highest murder rates by state for the 2010-2011 period:

Louisiana - 11.1
Mississippi - 7.45
New Mexico - 7.15
Maryland - 7.1
Missouri - 6.55
Arizona - 6.3
South Carolina - 6.25
Michigan - 6.05
Alabama - 6
Tennessee - 5.7

and for the 2000s:

Louisiana - 12.31
Maryland - 9.05
Mississippi - 8.2
Nevada - 7.69
New Mexico - 7.6
Alabama - 7.47
South Carolina - 7.25
Arizona - 7.19
Georgia - 6.93
Tennessee - 6.92

[alphamale]

How about a map showing city by city murder rates?

[italianuser]

Originally Posted by alphamale

How about a map showing city by city murder rates?

Let me guess: the list upsets you 'cause the most crime ridden states are states with lenient gun laws?


Anyway, there are several cities with high murder rates in states with lenient gun laws:

Flint, MI - 61.99 - 0.10m
Detroit, MI - 54.59 - 0.71m
New Orleans, LA - 53.19 - 0.36m
Jackson, MS - 35.81 - 0.18m
St Louis, MO - 35.46 - 0.32m
Baltimore, MD - 35.01 - 0.63m
Newark, NJ - 34.06 - 0.28m
Oakland, CA - 31.54 - 0.40m
Birmingham, AL - 31.42 - 0.21m
Baton Rouge, LA - 28.51 - 0.23m
Stockton, CA - 23.74 - 0.30m
Little Rock, AR - 22.95 - 0.20m
Kansas City, MO - 22.63 - 0.46m
Miami Gardens, FL - 22.49 - 0.11m
Philadelphia, PA - 21.51 - 1.54m
Cleveland, OH - 21.33 - 0.39m
Montgomery, AL - 21.05 - 0.21m
Memphis, TN - 20.23 - 0.66m
Richmond, VA - 20.21 - 0.21m
Atlanta, GA - 18.99 - 0.44m
Chicago, IL - 18.46 - 2.71m
Hartford, CT - 18.37 - 0.13m
Buffalo, NY - 18.29 - 0.26m
South Bend, IN - 17.75 - 0.10m
Rochester, NY - 16.98 - 0.21m
Richmond, CA - 16.92 - 0.11m
Dayton, OH - 16.88 - 0.14m
Miami, FL - 16.65 - 0.41m
West Palm Beach, FL - 16.60 - 0.10m
Cincinnati, OH - 15.53 - 0.30m
Milwaukee, WI - 15.18 - 0.60m
Bridgeport, CT - 15.07 - 0.15m
Paterson, NJ - 14.27 - 0.15m
Oklahoma City, OK - 14.27 - 0.60m
Norfolk, VA - 13.86 - 0.25m
Toledo, OH - 13.64 - 0.29m
Salinas, CA - 13.60 - 0.15m
Pittsburgh, PA - 13.14 - 0.31m
New Haven, CT - 13.08 - 0.13m
North Charleston, SC - 12.91 - 0.10m
Mobile, AL - 12.72 - 0.25m
Allentown, PA - 12.57 - 0.12m
Inglewood, CA - 12.56 - 0.11m
Dallas, TX - 12.40 - 1.24m
Akron, OH - 12.10 - 0.20m
Indianapolis, IN - 12.04 - 0.84m
Vallejo, CA - 11.87 - 0.12m
Topeka, KA - 11.64 - 0.13m
Lansing, MI - 11.34 - 0.11m
Pomona, CA - 11.22 - 0.15m
Elizabeth, NJ - 11.09 - 0.13m
Jacksonville, FL - 11.06 - 0.84m
Newport News, VA - 11.01 - 0.18m
Kansas City, KA - 10.87 - 0.15m
Beaumont, TX - 10.80 - 0.12m
Fayetteville, NC - 10.68 - 0.21m
Nashville, TN -10.63 - 0.62m
Tulsa, OK - 10.53 - 0.40m
Norwalk, CA - 10.25 - 0.11m
Fresno, CA - 10.08 - 0.51m

Chicago is not even on the top 20...

[freightshaker]

Actually this map doesn't say much of anything... The results are a mixed bag. Look at my home state of Texas. It fares better than many of the liberal gun controlling states. Why is that? Florida, while a little higher than Texas, still comes in well below some of the gun controlling states... On a case by case basis, you can't really make the arguement that gun control laws have any beneficial affect on these statistics....

[italianuser]

Originally Posted by freightshaker

Actually this map doesn't say much of anything... The results are a mixed bag. Look at my home state of Texas. It fares better than many of the liberal gun controlling states. Why is that? Florida, while a little higher than Texas, still comes in well below some of the gun controlling states... On a case by case basis, you can't really make the arguement that gun control laws have any beneficial affect on these statistics....

Yes, you're right: when you look at the whole picture you only realize one thing: gun violence affects any area in USA...
Conservatives used to claim that areas with strict gun laws have the highest murder rates; thanks God the FBI data have dismantled such LIE.

[freightshaker]

Originally Posted by italianuser

Yes, you're right: when you look at the whole picture you only realize one thing: gun violence affects any area in USA...
Conservatives used to claim that areas with strict gun laws have the highest murder rates; thanks God the FBI data have dismantled such LIE.

Actually there is still merit to those aguements.. When you look at cities like, Chicago, Baltimore, Gary, etc., it is clear that while they have strict gun control in place, the incidence rates of murder by guns are clearly higher.. I know the arguement can be made that it is because of drug trafficing, but by contrast, look at my home town of El Paso, Tx. There are more drugs on the streets of El Paso than the three cities previously mentioned combined. Yet there is a lesser amount of not only gun shot incidences, but of violence overall... Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with guns, one way or the other, but rather of culture... The facts however are still there.