Why are feminists so against men's rights advocacy groups? (soldier, independence, states)

[Taratova]

The liberal women what the men to become the weaker sex or viewed as one. It is all about power. If the woman wanted to be equal they wouldn't have a probliem with a woman or a man who make the choice of staying home with the kids and baking cookies like it is a disgusting job to raise the kids and cook a meal.

The difference is money vs your children in many cases. If one needs to work that is fine but to down someone who doesn't need to work and raises the kids that is an honorable job and should be viewed as such..

[jjrose]

Originally Posted by raison_d'etre

Not turning this into Wen vs. Women. I am trying to stop that. I started this thread to ask why SOME feminists are against the idea of men's rights and issues being brought up. I was attacked from the start and the debate you see now is a derailment of the actual topic.

It doesn't matter if you think they are legitimate issues or rights, If you stand for equality, it's your job to do have some common sense before you dismiss someones claim. But most of the feminist left think men's rights are a joke as proven here: Without proper understanding of Men's rights groups this user illogically lumps them in as a hate group. While there is no doubt that some of the MRG's out there are hateful and just plain childish, this does not speak true for ALL men's rights groups.


I have, read the thread. I am not going to post it several times for your convenience, Just because you don't like the examples I provide or don't want to read through the thread. These are both rights and issues. There are several Men's rights advocacy groups that are trying to bring these issues and rights into the publics attention. But, everytime a man stands up to do so, he is blocked by feminists. I have been to a few Men's rights rallies and each time feminists are there, with their bullhorns, and megaphones. I do speak out about these things, but when I do there is a group of feminists are every event.



Never said women put that in place. Why do you think I am against women? I don't blame them for this crap, I blame society in general.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find the words "some feminists" in your OP

Can someone please clear this up for me?

I have been told that If you are a men's rights advocate you are sexist, but if you are a women's rights advocate you are about equality. Explain, please.

Also, I have heard that feminists are working on men's rights issues, and by men's rights groups working on it too, they are somehow derailing their progress. But, I have yet to see any feminist group working or standing up for men's rights.

Why are feminists so against men's rights advocacy groups?

Yet again, not all feminists are against mens rights, just like all mens rights groups are against womens right.

Not every person or group is going to believe as you do. That's life.

[weltschmerz]

If the woman wanted to be equal they wouldn't have a probliem with a woman or a man who make the choice of staying home with the kids and baking cookies like it is a disgusting job to raise the kids and cook a meal.

Who has a problem with it? This liberal woman certainly doesn't. You certainly paint with a broad brush.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 2mares

So because only men were drafted their lifes have been overall harder than womens. My dad was drafted and he hated the military, it almost killed him but he still never whined about how much his life was harder because my mom wasnt drafted as well. Will it make you happy if more women die in non combat positions? Women are officially allowed in combat so naturally the percentage of casualities will be higher for men.

I agree that either both genders register or none, but blaming women or feminists isnt the answer.

I'm not blaming anyone. Your father might not have whined about it but his life was signifigantly harder while in the military plus any life long issues associated with physical or mental injuries which also could have made his life harder (which is true for many soldiers though it is conjecture if it applies specifically for your father).

I'm not blaming women for not having a larger role in past or current military actions. All I want is acknowledgment from many on this board for what Men have done and are still doing for this country.

Many on this forum dismiss the sacrifices men have made for this country because they either don't believe in the particular war or because they volunteered. So many have engrained in their heads that everyone is equal or women's lives are harder (which in certain instances is true) but complete skip the obvious sacrafices of men in our military.

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by 2mares

Ok first if your claims at work are legitmate you as a man have the same right as I as a women to file suit against your employer for discrimination. That is what a right is. I see plenty of men at the park with and without kids. There is no law barring men from working with kids. Most daycare positions pay squat and that is why you dont see a lot of men there. Now get on up to teaching school, especially on the highschool, university level you will see more men because the PAY is better.

I have asked lawyers in the area and none are willing to take it on without a major payment first. I don't make enought to file a lawsuit. There are no laws restricting men from being at the park with their kids or working at a daycare. Men don't work there because they won't get hired, society has this stigmata that all men are suspect if they want to work with kids.

You are not forced to work any job. You are not forced to walk home at midnight. The equal opportunity law is not meant to guarantee everyone the cushy dream job they desire. That is up to us as individuals.

So my option is to be discriminated against or be broke and jobless, I get that. This is why I am seeking new employment. I am forced to walk home at night as I don't make enough to buy a car. Never said laws even needed to guarantee such a thing.

What you describe are isssues not rights. You need to understand the differenence. Do you actually actively advocate for men's rights (issues). Do you allow feminists to tell you that you cant? Has a member of a feminist organization actually called you a fascist?

Some are rights, some are issues. I do activly advocate for men's rigths and issues. I don't allow feminists to tell me what I can or can't do, I don't need their permission. I'm just tired of them harassing every men's rights advocate and calling us rape apologists and fascists. Yes, several members of feminist organizations have called me and other MRA's fascists. They want the only voice on gender equality because to them, gender equality is about their equality, not men. If men have legitamet issues and unequality in some areas, it removed their idea of male privilage being universal.

Originally Posted by ellemint

Kudos to you for going into teaching. Just so you know, male teachers make more than female teachers nationally, so I think you'll be in good shape.

Proof?

[quote]

Originally Posted by 2mares

Good lord man. There are statistics based on medical records and police reports and actual convictions pointing to men being the majority of perpetrators in domestic violence and sexual assaults.

Those statistics aren't accurate as men don't report such things due to social stigmas.

The same laws do exist to protect men. If individual men have it in their head that they will be laughed at or that it is too difficult for them to report abuse and prosecute that is on them. Are you not aware that women also faced this same stigma? That it was acceptable to beat and rape your wife. Do you not know women were often humiliated and blamed for their abuse and rape at one time they were actually stoned for being raped? These rights you feel are only available to women were fought for, for decades. Many, many women suffered discrimination, humiliation unfair judicial practices and worse but fought on to get to where we are today. Why do you feel this same victory should be just automatically handed to men without the same efforts?

Oh, so men have to fight for it now? Men and women should not be ashamed to report such things. The onus is on society to make these people feel safe and not like they will be ridiculed. Women have it much easier than men do when it comes to reporting these crimes. They have avenues of escape in the form of shelters that bar men from entry and other resources. Men have few resources available and are often times told to go to anger management classes.

If you want these issues to change you men will have to dig in and fight. Stop expecting someone else to do it for you. You already have the resources and the path has been paved. You keep spouting male privilege it sounds like you do believe men should somehow be entitled to something other groups have had to sacrifice to obtain.

We're trying to, but when feminists tell us we're a joke for even suggesting such things, it doesn't help us. It makes people not want to take it seriously. They deny that they are part of the problem and when you call them out on it, you're being sexist.

Originally Posted by Jaymax

Did you get this nonsense from a men's rights group website?

Do you base your opinion of Men's rights on what the feminists left says?

[mb1547]

Originally Posted by Taratova

The liberal women what the men to become the weaker sex or viewed as one. It is all about power. If the woman wanted to be equal they wouldn't have a probliem with a woman or a man who make the choice of staying home with the kids and baking cookies like it is a disgusting job to raise the kids and cook a meal.

The difference is money vs your children in many cases. If one needs to work that is fine but to down someone who doesn't need to work and raises the kids that is an honorable job and should be viewed as such..

Who says that taking care of kids is a disgusting job? I don't know any professional women who put down stay at home moms, at least not these days, because we all know it's hard work. I loved that part of being home--taking care of my children. It was the rest of it that sucks. It's not a lot of fun to spend the MAJORITY of your days cleaning up poop, scrubbing toilets, cooking, mopping floors, running errands, washing clothes, serving as a non-stop chauffeur service, taking care of all the volunteer work that goes into kids activities, doing all the home repairs, mowing the lawn and doing all the yard work, taking care of the taxes, the bills and the investments, etc. etc. On top of that I'd stay up at night rereading, proofing and sometimes rewriting for clarity some of my husbands work because he was absolutely swamped. You know what I would have loved--a WIFE of my own. We made the choice for me to be the home care giver because we'd invested more money in my husbands education (I worked and put him through law school) and he had greater long term earning potential than me.

You make it sound like it's 24 hour lets play with the baby, bake cookies with the six year old, and lovingly read a book to them as they sit adoringly at your feet! It doesn't work that way--that's part of it, but the bigger part is household chores, plus not having the opportunity to even talk to other adults more than a couple of times a week. I did it gladly, but it wasn't fun a good chunk of the time. It had wonderful MOMENTS.

To listen to some of the "anti-alimony" people here, you're a fool if you decide to care for your children at home--that everyone should work and demand that the household chores be split exactly down the middle. Real families don't work in a cookie cutter way--they have to do what works for THEM. That's actually what feminism is about--having the opportunities and CHOICES available to you to make the right decision for your family, vs. the one that society thinks you should be restricted to.

[weltschmerz]

Reading your posts, Raison, you sound like a bitter, broke whiner. If you don't like the way society works, do something to change it. Women had to fight tooth and nail to get where we are today. You want us to fight your battles, too?
All I'm hearing from you is "Waah! No fair!"

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by jjrose

Both should decide before the fact.

I don't agree, but at least you're being fair.

It has been updated. Men get alimony too, if the woman was the main financial provider.

I care more about how much they get.

Then why are you still fussing. You were proven wrong, accept it. There are women fighting for mens rights.

Because it needs to be taken seriously and we need to speak up about it.

Where are these "several studies" that compare previous criminal records, and the crime being charged, and all extenuating circumstances, as well as the jail sentance?

This is the idiocy I am talking about. You will never find criminal records that match. The studies show that men get more time for the same crime than women do. It doesn't matter what their criminal history is, it's a gender gap and it is a legitimate issue. If you actually read the links I gave you, you would find most of what you are looking for.

Every group does not have to fight for every cause. Start your own group to support your causes. No one else is going to do exactly what you want. I have shown women who are standing up for your rights, you can not expect everyone to support your cause, or condemn the things you don't like.

I don't expect every group to support every cause. I expect every group that is for equality to step aside and not block equality when it comes to mens's rights.

Well then bring it to societies attention. You can not force society to act and believe as you want them to.
Get over it and do something about it, just like women have had to do.

I'm trying to. But I can't shove the feminists that rise up against me. My options for avoiding them are slim.

[raison_d'etre]

Originally Posted by weltschmerz

All I'm hearing form you Raison, you sound like a bitter, broke whiner. If you don't like the way society works, do something to change it. Women had to fight tooth and nail to get where we are today. You want us to fight your battles, too?
All I'm hearing from you is "Waah! No fair!"

No, I don't expect you to fight tooth and nail for our rights. I expect you (feminists: men and women) to shut your mouth when we speak up about our issues. I expect you to move out of our way so we can do something to change it. I expect you not to protest our rallies and events. I expect you to not pull the fire alarm in order to silence us. I don't get in your way, I expect the same courtesy.

[soletaire]

Originally Posted by weltschmerz

All I'm hearing form you Raison, you sound like a bitter, broke whiner. If you don't like the way society works, do something to change it. Women had to fight tooth and nail to get where we are today. You want us to fight your battles, too?
All I'm hearing from you is "Waah! No fair!"

This is an interesting take, because if you let many male feminists tell it, they are also in the "fight" with you...lol..I guess we now know what their contribution really means. At the end of the day, they're fighting a battle in which they arent even acknowledged as being in...it seems they are still considered an opponent or a nonsequitur at best...a sort of male humanshield used only to give validity to a particular perspective. After which time, they are discarded, and re-relegated back to being the oppressive opponent.