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The lock down wasn't a failure if no one else got hurt. This could have very likely been the case if it was business as usual since it was assumed he was armed. So if more eyes had been on the ground and someone saw him then what. Would they try to capture him. Would they alert the police and maybe a shootout would have occurred. What if innocent people got in the line of fire. Can you imagine the outrage if a civilian was shot by police by mistake. Then some would say why didn't they keep people off the street. You can't please everyone so to me it's better to be safe than sorry.
It is better to have liberty.
Quote:
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberty for a little security, deserve neither liberty nor security".
What was the matter with using the classic American police chase you see on Youtube? You know were the cops are on the cars tail and are relentless and NEVER lose sight of the suspect..with the chopper over head and the spot light..tracking the runners every move. I just don't get it- You have a swarm of professionals ...there is a shoot out and a guy in a car leaves the scene and they lose him? How could they lose him? Did no one instantly give chase and stay on his tail? It's just plain weird. Not that I have experience but from what I have seen shown in videos of police chases is that they almost NEVER lose the suspect...why did they lose this one?
Do you actually think you can understand a pursuit by watching Youtube? Pursuit Policy isn't 100 percent understandable by Youtube videos. There are dozens of different things going on at any given time during a pursuit, keep in mind, these guys were tossing IED's out of the window, shooting back etc... I know you watch alot of TV, judging by your posts regarding policing in the US, the reality is, there isn't always a helicopter circling above, and even if there is a helo up, it may be in a different part of the city or may be running out of fuel (which happens too). Now, after a shootout like this, where one guy takes off, you have another who possibly got hit by him, and the completely possible aspect of a suicide vest or remaining IED's, you can't just leave that scene, that whole area has to be cordoned off immediately so a guy trying to get home from work, or another LE Unit doesn't run into a bomb. Depending on how many units immediately involved, your pursuit can end right there.
Pursuit policy is a funny thing, everyone thinks you go balls to wall, this is incorrect, you have to clear intersections, stop at lights, clear those intersections too before you run 'em because if you don't, you might kill an innocent, it's not the Dukes of Hazzard. Keep in mind, you are chasing someone who doesn't have to abide by pursuit policy, someone who is just going to keep going and going. In an urban environment, on the street, the distance a violator can gain on the police grows by leaps and bounds because they are not bound by policy and liability.
With that said, (back to the one suspect on the ground) you basically have to shut that street/intersection down, what happens right then is, you throw out a car/suspect description over the radio, direction of travel and let all of the incoming units handle it. Depending on their (the responding units) locations (which you don't know), they may be there quickly - or not, but one thing is certain, you are NOT leaving a crime scene with possible unexploded bombs and a suspect on the ground whose condition is unknown, Why? You all take off and medics show up - then the guy detonates a vest, two weeks later you're sitting in Internal Affairs.
"Why did you leave a suspect on the ground when you weren't sure of his condition??"
"Uhhhhh, because I saw it on City-Data?"
you tell me how that one goes over...
To everyone screaming about a dog, dogs are like helo's, they aren't always available because they can't be worked for that long, they get cycled in and out for rest and on top of that, not every police unit is a K-9 unit, they just don't appear out of nowhere when an officer requests a K-9. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, it's the luck of the draw.
Do you actually think you can understand a pursuit by watching Youtube? Pursuit Policy isn't 100 percent understandable by Youtube videos. There are dozens of different things going on at any given time during a pursuit, keep in mind, these guys were tossing IED's out of the window, shooting back etc... I know you watch alot of TV, judging by your posts regarding policing in the US, the reality is, there isn't always a helicopter circling above, and even if there is a helo up, it may be in a different part of the city or may be running out of fuel (which happens too). Now, after a shootout like this, where one guy takes off, you have another who possibly got hit by him, and the completely possible aspect of a suicide vest or remaining IED's, you can't just leave that scene, that whole area has to be cordoned off immediately so a guy trying to get home from work, or another LE Unit doesn't run into a bomb. Depending on how many units immediately involved, your pursuit can end right there.
Pursuit policy is a funny thing, everyone thinks you go balls to wall, this is incorrect, you have to clear intersections, stop at lights, clear those intersections too before you run 'em because if you don't, you might kill an innocent, it's not the Dukes of Hazzard. Keep in mind, you are chasing someone who doesn't have to abide by pursuit policy, someone who is just going to keep going and going. In an urban environment, on the street, the distance a violator can gain on the police grows by leaps and bounds because they are not bound by policy and liability.
With that said, (back to the one suspect on the ground) you basically have to shut that street/intersection down, what happens right then is, you throw out a car/suspect description over the radio, direction of travel and let all of the incoming units handle it. Depending on their (the responding units) locations (which you don't know), they may be there quickly - or not, but one thing is certain, you are NOT leaving a crime scene with possible unexploded bombs and a suspect on the ground whose condition is unknown, Why? You all take off and medics show up - then the guy detonates a vest, two weeks later you're sitting in Internal Affairs.
"Why did you leave a suspect on the ground when you weren't sure of his condition??"
"Uhhhhh, because I saw it on City-Data?"
you tell me how that one goes over...
To everyone screaming about a dog, dogs are like helo's, they aren't always available because they can't be worked for that long, they get cycled in and out for rest and on top of that, not every police unit is a K-9 unit, they just don't appear out of nowhere when an officer requests a K-9. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't, it's the luck of the draw.
There ya go, now you can move on.
Every cop in the surrounding area was there. They were bussing em in from all over. Your telling me they had to let all the mutts rest? That is why they didn't catch em? The helo's with their fancy smancy equipment allowed this guy to get away from the shootout at 2am while the entire place was locked down so he was the only guy running around to boot? What were they gassing up? They haven't heard of getting maybe more than one or two to search the area? I guess not.
Every cop in the surrounding area was there. They were bussing em in from all over. Your telling me they had to let all the mutts rest? That is why they didn't catch em? The helo's with their fancy smancy equipment allowed this guy to get away from the shootout at 2am while the entire place was locked down so he was the only guy running around to boot? What were they gassing up? They haven't heard of getting maybe more than one or two to search the area? I guess not.
And your experience running pursuits would be what? Were you actually there? I wasn't, somehow I don't believe you were either.
You and your buddy asked for an answer, you got one, you don't like it? I can't help you there.
ETA: I knew this kind of response was inbound, LOL.
The lock down wasn't a failure if no one else got hurt.
No, the end does not justify the means. The entire country is hurt whenever LE ignores our constitutional rights with impunity.
Trampling on the constitution is a much worse disaster than the bomb. We will quickly recover from the bombing, but will never recover if we allow our constitution to be ignored.
I wouldn't sing any tune. Had I been in that situation I would be in my home with my weapons ready to defend it. I surely wouldn't be expecting the police to bang on my door and force me out into the street at gunpoint and frisked and told to run off up the street. You folks on the other hand grab your ankles and do what your told and ask no questions. You would give up all your rights if you were told it was to protect you when the guys your giving your rights up to are the ones pointing the guns at you. Mind numbing ignorance.
lol, another person who acts like a tough guy on the internet. How original. If you were in that situation you would thank the lord that the police were protecting you and your family. What 'rights' am I giving up by letting the police catch a mass murderer faster?
You people who put false claims of freedom above actually preventing someone from killing more people makes me a little sick. Personally, I care more about keeping a psychopath from setting off another bomb than I do not letting the police search my house. But hey, if you would prefer other people dying so that you don't need to let anyone in your home, I guess you are welcome to that opinion champ.
Would you of answered the door with your guns drawn when the police knocked on it? Would you of shot the police for knocking on your door? Your such a funny armchair quarterback.
If my wife and kids were scared and I had guys cops or what not screaming and brandishing guns to my unarmed children, I am not sure how I would act.
Its ok guys the cops got permission to sear h their houses after they beat on the door yell for people to shut up and stuck a "black gun" in their face.
And your experience running pursuits would be what? Were you actually there? I wasn't, somehow I don't believe you were either.
You and your buddy asked for an answer, you got one, you don't like it? I can't help you there.
ETA: I knew this kind of response was inbound, LOL.
So you knew somebody with common sense would respond and you LOL?? That about sums up your contribution to the thread. You weren't there either but seem to know what happened. LOL. How's that?
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