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Nobody is hijacking your thread we know what your thread is about. We are talking about responsibility on both accounts or did you miss that. Forcing someone to go to jail because they are irresponsible about having children out of wedlock or having them in wedlock and still not being responsible isn't going to stop them from procreating when they are released from their 3 year sentence. And how does locking them up help when the mother now will guarantee that for the next 3 years she will get no support. Compared to if they are out of jail they could be forced to find employment (court mandated) and pay back child support and have it deducted from their income
I just don't see how locking them up is going to change the fact that there will still be those that slip through the cracks and still continue to do the behavior. We lock people up now for not paying child support, release them, and they continue to do the same. So now what say you?
Do you have a better idea of how to break this cycle? Have you been paying attention to what is going on in Chicago and New Orleans and other places? States going bankrupt trying to provide for all of these fatherless children?
I just know that if I was a young man and I knew that if I impregnated a woman I would have to pay $700 per month minimum for 18 years and it would be backed by the law with a minimum 3 year prison sentence if I don't keep the payments up? If I knew that would happen I would wear 2 rubbers or I would find a hobby until I find the woman I want to spend my life with and build a family.
If they don't have a father around to teach them right from wrong they need something. Like a kick in the pants like this.
Let's live in the real world. The baby should be with the mother. She can't hardly be in jail and be a mother to that child. But I agree that she should have to work in some kind of a job if she has to ask for assistance.
Why should the baby be with the mother and not or less than the father? What makes women so important? Numerous studies show that it is important to have the father in the kids' life.
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Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
I don't think the focus of the subject is marriage, even though I did mention "wedlock"
All I'm saying is if you father a child, you are responsible. I think the word will get around pretty quick that you better use protection or you better move on and don't do the deed because the State now will make sure you do.
It's personal responsibility Kenneth. Many of these youngsters never had anyone to teach them when they needed it. But they understand having to pay money or go to prison.
All I'm saying is something has to be done to change this culture.
Do you think if we gave men equal rights when it comes to raising the kid and abortion that would change? Sometimes the man can't pay but is willing to raise the kids. In that scenario you could have the mom pay child support. Other times the child support payments are too high. Remember, child support takes a percentage of the man's income - not the cost to raise a kid - and sometimes that could mean losing 50% of your income.
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Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
Isn't that kind of crazy though? I mean the man is already not paying, so now we are taking away any ability he would actually have to pay.
But if he get's a notice from the State that if his child support is not paid up by a certain date, or arrangements made-he has to report to court for sentencing for prison or a warrant for his arrest will be issued. I'll bet he would pay and I'll bet he will think twice about his next sexual encounter.
That is basically the law now. Not everyone that doesn't pay is just choosing not to pay. Let's say the economy crashes and you can't pay the court ordered child support. Maybe you get a lower paying job or maybe you are looking for one. If you don't pay you lose your professional license, if you lose your professional license you lose your job or won't get hired.
We are already tough on men when it comes to child support and as a result only a tiny fraction do not pay support. This does not mean only a tiny fraction of women don't receive support; some women don't know the father or don't tell the father about the kid.
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Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
That's a really bad analogy. Doesn't even make any sense.
I'm talking about enforcing a little personal responsibility. No one is telling the man he can't have sex, but they are giving him an incentive to have safe sex.
What is the difference between this and any "sin tax" like alcohol or tobacco?
The incentive already exists for men. Where is the woman's incentive to make sure she is on BC. Even if the man pays the kid could still be on welfare. Some men only have to pay $100/month and others have to pay $2000/month.
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Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
Who usually gets stuck raising it for the next 18 yrs?
Two tango and one does the shuffle......
That's because of the court system. Most courts aren't going to give the man custody eve if the man is willing and able to take joint/sole custody.
So... because YOU are such a stand up guy and WANTED to raise your daughters without any female family living in the same state, it ought to be the LAW, that all men that father children be their sole custodials for 9 years. Right... are you feeling stupidly grandiose yet? Because that's the effect I'm working at. How dare you. And, no, most men cannot raise a child as well as any woman because child rearing is not done in a vacum. Everything is working against a single dad and some will prevail but most won't. Most don't. Reality trumps anything your fevered imagination might conjure. The REALITY is a scheme like yours would not work.
H
If you don't like my suggestion, make a counter suggestion. At least I am not being rude and nasty.
Do you believe a man can't do the job as well as a woman? Are feeling so grandiose that nobody can match YOUR skills in child rearing? How dare you!
The reality is, the ONLY thing a woman can do, that I cannot do, is produce a baby and nurse it. With that sole item set aside ANY man can do as well raising a child as a women, if they put their mind to it.
If you don't like my suggestion, that counter it, with something YOU think will work. Instead of being nasty about it, what do you think is a legitimate proposal to address the problem we face today with men NOT being held responsible for their actions, and the repercussions of that, the children seeing this and then believing that's just the way it is.
If you don't like my suggestion, make a counter suggestion. At least I am not being rude and nasty.
Do you believe a man can't do the job as well as a woman? Are feeling so grandiose that nobody can match YOUR skills in child rearing? How dare you!
The reality is, the ONLY thing a woman can do, that I cannot do, is produce a baby and nurse it. With that sole item set aside ANY man can do as well raising a child as a women, if they put their mind to it.
If you don't like my suggestion, that counter it, with something YOU think will work. Instead of being nasty about it, what do you think is a legitimate proposal to address the problem we face today with men NOT being held responsible for their actions, and the repercussions of that, the children seeing this and then believing that's just the way it is.
Men are held responsible for their actions. In addition to state law, the failure to pay child support is a federal crime. Typically states will not even give you a trial. If you do not pay support you will be in contempt of court and will be held until you pay. That is in addition to any criminal penalties you may face.
I just know that if I was a young man and I knew that if I impregnated a woman I would have to pay $700 per month minimum for 18 years and it would be backed by the law with a minimum 3 year prison sentence if I don't keep the payments up? If I knew that would happen I would wear 2 rubbers or I would find a hobby until I find the woman I want to spend my life with and build a family.
No you wouldnt. We have not been able to stop raging hormones since day 1.
Our society already forces men to pay childsupport or they are jailed. Hows that working?
When society didnt, there were less single mothers and welfare programs.
Limit the welfare a single parent can receive. Make the mothers as responsible for providing support as the fathers. There are options when a woman has an unplanned pregnancy and cant support her child. Stop glorifying single parenthood, improve BC information and avalibility and provide sterilization incentives. Provide education, parenting classes and job training and encourage parents to work instead of making it impossible to do so.
I have to disagree with you. How is everything working against a single dad and not a single mother. A single mother would face the same obstacles that a man would. There is nothing a female can do that a man cant do with the exception of nursing and that isnt necessary. We dont, to my knowledge, have any stats on the sucess of single dads vs. single moms. What criteria would you consider prevailing?
Darkatts idea might work best if the mother took the first 9 yrs. and the father the next tho.
But again you cant force people to be decent parents.
You are right about the first 9 years, the reason for my proposal, in all actuality is, the fist 9 years, are probably some of the roughest. MANY men are not interested in the responsibility that child rearing entails. If they were faced with it as a certainty, they may not be so willing to "free willy" and have fun at someone elses expense. MANY men are not held responsible, and because of that, go about their way without caring what impact they are having on others.
If they were in fact impacted, and were held responsible, things may be different.
I LOVE my 2 daughters, and would have walked through hellfire itself for them.
If you don't like my suggestion, make a counter suggestion. At least I am not being rude and nasty.
Do you believe a man can't do the job as well as a woman? Are feeling so grandiose that nobody can match YOUR skills in child rearing? How dare you!
The reality is, the ONLY thing a woman can do, that I cannot do, is produce a baby and nurse it. With that sole item set aside ANY man can do as well raising a child as a women, if they put their mind to it.
If you don't like my suggestion, that counter it, with something YOU think will work. Instead of being nasty about it, what do you think is a legitimate proposal to address the problem we face today with men NOT being held responsible for their actions, and the repercussions of that, the children seeing this and then believing that's just the way it is.
I already suggested what should be done about the "problem": nothing. Gun violence is a bigger problem and we continue to do nothing about that. Get over your jealousy of men you think have escaped responsibility. 1. There aren't that many of them. 2. They are not likely living all that wonderful a life if they don't have assets that can be attached. 3. Why is it always only about the money? Did anyone answer my question? How much money do you believe you are paying every month to support the children of deadbeat dads? I'm serious. How much? If men and women were as interchangebale as you say the Creator would not have gone so far out of his way to endow men and women with uniquely sex linked personalities. I wouldn't have wanted my father to have sole custody of me!!!!!!!! A country with 424 billionaires can afford a few deadbeat dads... or is it the fact that its Louisiana, and whatever other southern states were mentioned... ... this whole thread reeks of superiorism, racism, sexism and naivism.
Do you have a better idea of how to break this cycle? Have you been paying attention to what is going on in Chicago and New Orleans and other places? States going bankrupt trying to provide for all of these fatherless children?
I just know that if I was a young man and I knew that if I impregnated a woman I would have to pay $700 per month minimum for 18 years and it would be backed by the law with a minimum 3 year prison sentence if I don't keep the payments up? If I knew that would happen I would wear 2 rubbers or I would find a hobby until I find the woman I want to spend my life with and build a family.
If they don't have a father around to teach them right from wrong they need something. Like a kick in the pants like this.
easy fix. To have children you must apply for and be granted a license. All children are subject to fertility deactivation by 14, only to be returned by a doctor with said license.
wedding is not necessary. person or person(s) can apply for license and be granted license based on their income, living location, job history, and education
unlicensed pregnancies are terminiated (now that would be powerful stuff, though technically i'm no fan of aborition sometimes you have to go with the greater good)
Religion has tried to break the human sex drive, that god placed within them, by saying it was planted by the devil.
Then take the other road and look at evolution and the males sex drive in all species...... Why would humans be different.
Mother Nature dictates that the strong will survive and reproduce. Try to alter that and there will be unintended consequences.
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