Obama To Ignore Senate, Sign 2nd Amendment-Violating U.N. Gun Treaty

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge

blah-blah-blah.

The United Nations isn't requiring the United States to keep records of end-users and turn them over to the UN. You falsely made a claim, and I'm certain that you read or heard that claim somewhere else. I know that you are normally a person who does go to the source and familiarizes yourself with the real issues.

This treaty doesn't have anything to do with the 2nd Amendment.

The Congressmen know that, but there is political advantage in the pretense that this treaty does infringe on the 2nd Amendment, and the Congressmen who sent the letter are seizing on that political advantage, and counting on the average gun supporter to not read the actual treaty, but to trust in the partisan editorials instead.

The US has not signed the treaty, and until it does, nothing is required from the US. However, signators of the treaty are "encouraged" (and if you think they will not you are a fool) to report the names of end-users that they exported firearms to, and the UN shares that information with all the other signatory members.

If you buy a Beretta 92F from Italy, the US federal government will be made aware of your purchase via the UN. That is a Fourth Amendment violation. The federal government is not entitled to any of your personal information, including purchases of any kind, without a court-issued warrant that can only be issued when probable cause can be demonstrated.

Is it not bad enough that the federal government steals our medical information (in the case of the IRS), now you want to give them full access to your foreign purchases? Where does this totalitarian state you envision end?

[mohawkx]

Originally Posted by Glitch

The US has not signed the treaty, and until it does, nothing is required from the US. However, signators of the treaty are "encouraged" (and if you think they will not you are a fool) to report the names of end-users that they exported firearms to, and the UN shares that information with all the other signatory members.

If you buy a Beretta 92F from Italy, the US federal government will be made aware of your purchase via the UN. That is a Fourth Amendment violation. The federal government is not entitled to any of your personal information, including purchases of any kind, without a court-issued warrant that can only be issued when probable cause can be demonstrated.

Is it not bad enough that the federal government steals our medical information (in the case of the IRS), now you want to give them full access to your foreign purchases? Where does this totalitarian state you envision end?

You can't buy a Beretta 92F from Italy unless you have a Form6 import license from BATFE. You want to buy a Beretta here in the USA you go to this place www.berettaUSA.com Every major manufacturer of sporting firearms in the world has a US subsidy. Even Kalashnikovs(AKs) Built in the original AK47 factory, imported into the USA by the thousands and known as the Saiga. Do I really need to post the USA links to Browning, Heckler&Koch, Fabrique National, et al? Currently, A private party cannot purchase from an overseas company without getting an import license. You as an individual cannot call up Beretta in Italy and say "send me a 9mm 92F". That's the way the rules have always been written since the 1968 GCA.

Let's just say that you could circumvent all the firearm importation laws and BATFE restrictions and buy your Beretta 92F from Rome, Italy as an individual purchase. Well currently you would still have to take delivery from an FFL holder and fill out a form 4473 background check. So the Feds are still informed that you just purchased one, are they not?

You're really not going to try and say that the 2000 Beretta 92Fs imported per month by Beretta into it's USA subsidy is going to track every sale to the owner and report it to the UN? No, THey will report 2000 Berettas imported to their USA subsidy and the registration buck stops right there. From that point on, current US gun law takes over.

Your argument doesn't hold any water, sir. If You want to discuss what are the actual current gun laws concerning importation of firearms by individuals and how the treaty actually impacts those current laws I'd be more than happy to. It's an area I'm somewhat versed in.

So what exactly changes for American citizens when the UN treaty is ratified? So far, over the last couple years this whole thing has been floating around the conservative water cooler, all I've been able to get is paranoia of what may happen in the future based on some very vague connections that don't really connect at all. And that's from the informed conservative gun crowd.