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Old 06-12-2013, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720

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Well the US did not show up at the public signing on June 3.
We wimped out of publicly showing up and signing the Treaty.
US Reps said we'll do it later after it's translated.
Not showing up sends a message. Playing both sides of the fence here.
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Old 06-12-2013, 06:39 AM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,947,399 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The exporter must report to the UN the name the end-user who purchased the weapon(s). All imported firearms will be registered, so it will not matter who you buy them from.
In that case, if you wish to be an exporter, you have to abide by the international regulations. The US Constitution end at your toes in the shore end...

If you dont wish to comply, dont be an exporter.
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:22 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The exporter must report to the UN the name the end-user who purchased the weapon(s). All imported firearms will be registered, so it will not matter who you buy them from.
Where does it say that the exporter must report to the UN the name of the end-user?

How would they even know the name of the end user?
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Texas
1,922 posts, read 2,779,636 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by garnetpalmetto View Post
Beyond that the treaty ONLY applies to international shipment of arms and doesn't even touch anything about intranational sales. Within its own preamble it states that it "Reaffirm[s] the sovereign right of any State to regulate and control conventional arms exclusively within its territory, pursuant to its own legal or constitutional system." Given that the sale of firearms in this nation to private individuals is perfectly legal and is governed by our own legal and constitutional system, the Arms Trade Treaty doesn't change your ability to go down to AmmuNation and pick up a .45 semiauto.

Ok, so why is our Government spending any time on this? Aren't there more pressing things for the president to do, like figuring out what controversy will drop next?
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Old 06-12-2013, 07:34 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordlover View Post
Ok, so why is our Government spending any time on this? Aren't there more pressing things for the president to do, like figuring out what controversy will drop next?

It's a United Nations treaty. The United Nations is spending time on this.

The United States is a member of the United Nations. It is the most powerful member of the United Nations.

When the United Nations moves forward on an international treaty that is intended to keep arms out of the hands of terrorists and people trying to commit genocide, an admirable goal, the United States has an interest in that treaty.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Where does it say that the exporter must report to the UN the name of the end-user?

How would they even know the name of the end user?
Article 12(3) of the treaty:
"Each State Party is encouraged to include in those records: the quantity, value, model/type, authorized international transfers of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1), conventional arms actually transferred, details of exporting State(s), importing State(s), transit and trans-shipment State(s), and end users, as appropriate."
Source: http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/do...he_GA%29-E.pdf
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:11 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Article 12(3) of the treaty:
"Each State Party is encouraged to include in those records: the quantity, value, model/type, authorized international transfers of conventional arms covered under Article 2 (1), conventional arms actually transferred, details of exporting State(s), importing State(s), transit and trans-shipment State(s), and end users, as appropriate."
Source: http://www.un.org/disarmament/ATT/do...he_GA%29-E.pdf
"Encouraged" is a far cry from required.

Moreover, a German exporter sells 2 million arms to Wal-Mart. That German company isn't going to know who the end-users are, so all that the German company is going to report is that they sold those arms to Wal-Mart, in the United States, and that the arms shipped direct from Germany to the United States without any trans-shipment States.

The United States will report that Wal-Mart was the recipient of the guns, for sale in their retail stores.

When you say that the treaty will require something, you should actually look for words like "require".

This treaty is to monitor international gun trade where the guns may end up in the hands of terrorists and warlords that are committing atrocities. The United Nations isn't interested in Glitch buying a Glock.
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Old 06-12-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
"Encouraged" is a far cry from required.

Moreover, a German exporter sells 2 million arms to Wal-Mart. That German company isn't going to know who the end-users are, so all that the German company is going to report is that they sold those arms to Wal-Mart, in the United States, and that the arms shipped direct from Germany to the United States without any trans-shipment States.

The United States will report that Wal-Mart was the recipient of the guns, for sale in their retail stores.

When you say that the treaty will require something, you should actually look for words like "require".

This treaty is to monitor international gun trade where the guns may end up in the hands of terrorists and warlords that are committing atrocities. The United Nations isn't interested in Glitch buying a Glock.
The UN is merely a functionary. They provide these lists of gun sales to all their member nations. That is where it becomes a de facto firearm registration.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:08 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,894,256 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The UN is merely a functionary. They provide these lists of gun sales to all their member nations. That is where it becomes a de facto firearm registration.
blah-blah-blah.

The United Nations isn't requiring the United States to keep records of end-users and turn them over to the UN. You falsely made a claim, and I'm certain that you read or heard that claim somewhere else. I know that you are normally a person who does go to the source and familiarizes yourself with the real issues.

This treaty doesn't have anything to do with the 2nd Amendment.

The Congressmen know that, but there is political advantage in the pretense that this treaty does infringe on the 2nd Amendment, and the Congressmen who sent the letter are seizing on that political advantage, and counting on the average gun supporter to not read the actual treaty, but to trust in the partisan editorials instead.
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Old 06-12-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,713,235 times
Reputation: 14818
Quote:
Originally Posted by 97701 View Post
I've registered a car for over 30 years. Never had one confiscated. Never known anyone to have one confiscated unless it was repo'd because they didn't pay for it.
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