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That's the problem. Anyone can kill anyone and call it self defense, even if they provoked the incident and no matter how small. The other person if killed has no voice and gets no justice? There needs to be clearer terms for what constitutes self defense. Stand Your Ground definitely is a very faulty law and we are going to see more cases like this if it is not done away with.
So you think you should be able to claim that Zimmerman provoked the incident and he should be convicted with no proof? No. It doesn't work that way. Zimmerman actually HOPED a video camera got it all on tape. That fact that he was glad that the incident may have been recorded tells you HE DID NOTHING WRONG. He was attacked by a thug kid who thought GZ was an easy target. He wasn't counting on GZ having a gun.
There COULD be major closed head injury. OR there could not be. The bottom line is, Zimmerman has the right to refuse medical care if he wishes, and that's what he did. Maybe because of his head injuries he wasn't thinking right. Sometimes people with head injuries say they are okay, thinking that they are, and then they die. Sometimes when something traumatic happens (head being pounded on concrete AND the fact that you actually shot and killed someone), you are stunned and not thinking right.
But whether Zimmerman sought medical treatment that night has nothing to do with anything. He wouldn't have had to be touched by Martin at all to have sufficient cause to shoot Martin if he was in fear for his life. But clearly Martin DID touch him. But whether Zimmerman sought medical treatment that night is irrelevant.
It is relevant. It shows that his injuries were not life threatening therefore he had not right to take someone else's life. Concussions are very minor closed head injuries but even then you are disoriented and drowsy. Police reports do not describe him as such. The back of the head is a very vulnerable area. If his head was truly being pounded against CONCRETE as he described, there is noway he wouldn't have sustained a more serious type of injury. He would have at least had some knots or bruising...He had cuts. I work in the hospital and mostly work with patients who have sustained TBI's all the time...his injuries were not at all serious enough to take someone elses life, sorry.
So you think you should be able to claim that Zimmerman provoked the incident and he should be convicted with no proof? No. It doesn't work that way. Zimmerman actually HOPED a video camera got it all on tape. That fact that he was glad that the incident may have been recorded tells you HE DID NOTHING WRONG. He was attacked by a thug kid who thought GZ was an easy target. He wasn't counting on GZ having a gun.
I really question why you would refer to TM as a thug? By definition a thug is a criminal. TM did not have any record to support your claim, however, GZ does...
Lol seriously. If GZ really thought TM was a threat, he would have never have gotten out of the car to begin with. Why would you pursue someone if you thought they could harm you?!
Zimmerman should have thought of all that before he provoked a confrontation with an unarmed teen and then killed him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68
I agree. I'm not a liberal nor do I subscribe to the PC nonsense and media bias so prevalent in our society. But Zimmerman was told to stand down by the 911 operator and let the police respond. He took it upon himself to profile Trayvon while trying to be a town hero. Now, a 17 year old kid is dead because Zimmerman wanted to take matters into his own untrained hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828
Yes, and it doesn't take any kind of genius or legal expert to realize this is wrong, that he was in the wrong by doing this. You go chasing after someone with a gun, they will try to fight back to defend themselves, so any argument about whether or not Martin was on top of Zimmerman or not don't matter- what would others do if some idiot came chasing after them with a gun? All you can do is fight back and hope you "win" the fight so you don't get shot.
Zimmerman is not being railroaded in the least bit- the legal arguments are really just over trying to find ways to make him innocent in somehow blaming Martin for this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN
Failed to use common sense, failed to follow 911 operator instructions, failed to follow his neighborhood blockwatch training to NOT carry a gun, failed to stay in his car, and he put himself into a position that got out of control. It isn’t a matter of who was on top or not. Zimmerman is the only one telling his story whether it’s totally true or not. Dead is dead, and Zimmerman had every change to “avoid” the incident. He may not be found guilty of murder in this life, but he’ll have to answer to someone of a higher authority.
Any young man or woman should be able to walk in any neighborhood with a bag of skittles and an ice-tea drink without getting killed by the neighborhood watch person.
^^^Agreed. Zimmerman thought he was a cop or Clint Eastwood He was Mr. Macho. I do think he was "profiling" -- a young black man is in the neighborhood!!! Run for your lives!!! -- but even if he wasn't profiling he took things into his own hands -- against an unarmed man.
I'm scared that he is going to be acquitted.
Every time I see a bag of Skittles, I feel sad.
However, even if he is acquitted, he will always be judged. It is a tragic case all the way around.
BTW...Zimmerman's criminal history is more extensive then Trayvons.
Where are you quoting that from? Anecdotaly he couldn't have anything significant or he wouldnt have had a CCW permit. If your saying he had more parking tickets then sure OK.
If TM was so scared, why didn't he just go home? Why did he come back and jump GZ? I don't think he was afraid at all. His mistake was he didn't think GZ had a gun. He thought he could easily pummel GZ and run away and that would be the end of it. He just wasn't counting on the gun.
They were talking about the size difference yesterday, as if GZ had a size advantage. Uh, how so? GZ - 5'8" and 205 pounds and 28 years old. TM - closer to 6 feet and 160 pounds and 17 years old. TM clearly had the advantage. He was younger, taller, thinner, more agile, more athletic.
TM was on his way home. He stopped to ask GZ if he had a problem because he was following him. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not replying to Trayvon Martin; therefore, you wouldn't know what TM was thinking! GZ never identified himself as neighborhood watch.
On the 911 tape, we hear GZ tell the operator that he believes that TM was on drugs. If it's dark outside and you see a suspicious person that you believe is on drugs, it would behoove you to stay away from him. He could be on prescription medication, PCP, LSD, and the latest popularity in Florida, bath salts. GZ comes off as a wanna-be cop.
Why is it that you gave exacts for GZ's size, but not TM's? And, according to Wikipedia, you were wrong...
GZ was 5'7" and 185lbs.
TM was 5'11 and 158lbs.
It is possible for GZ to beat TM in a fight. At the time, GZ was taking boxing lessons and TM was a running back. GZ claims that TM was beating his head into the ground. If that's true, then why did he have only have those two measly cuts. He also claims that TM covered his nose and mouth. If that's true, then how were the residents able to hear a male voice cry "Help!"? We can even hear it on the tapes, and it doesn't sound muffled. TM was found laying on his stomach with his hands covering his heart (gunshot). If the accusation that he was covering GZ's nose and mouth is true, then why didn't we find blood on his hands and/or shirt. GZ claimed that TM grabbed the gun before he fired, then why wasn't TM's DNA on the gun?
It is relevant. It shows that his injuries were not life threatening therefore he had not right to take someone else's life. .
These two ideas are not tied to each other. As others have said (i think) GZ didnt have to have a scratch on him. he only needed to reasonably believe that TM was going to harm him and possibly kill him. Its not a slaiding scale of how much damage you received that dictates how much force you can uses lol.
The kid was cocky and he caught a bullet. Thug life over. Reload. #Justice
Where are you quoting that from? Anecdotaly he couldn't have anything significant or he wouldnt have had a CCW permit. If your saying he had more parking tickets then sure OK.
According to the Huffington Post:
Crump said public records show that Zimmerman was arrested in Orange County in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.
...not to mention he was also charged with domestic violence.
These two ideas are not tied to each other. As others have said (i think) GZ didnt have to have a scratch on him. he only needed to reasonably believe that TM was going to harm him and possibly kill him. Its not a slaiding scale of how much damage you received that dictates how much force you can uses lol.
The kid was cocky and he caught a bullet. Thug life over. Reload. #Justice
Why is TM being labeled a thug here? Is it because he is black? He had no criminal record which is actually what makes someone a "thug."
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He was Mr. Macho. I do think he was "profiling" -- a young black man is in the neighborhood!!! Run for your lives!!! -- but even if he wasn't profiling he took things into his own hands -- against an unarmed man.