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Good point. Too bad Trayvon violated it. Look what happened as a result of him attacking, knocking down, and beating Zimmerman, who had not attacked him.
Zimmerman could have gotten in his face, pushed him or grabbed him.
In an encounter like this one, when is the unarmed man justified in "standing his ground?."
You can stand your ground all day long. If Z pushed him or grabbed him, Martin is only allowed to dodge the push or avoid being grabbed. The point of self defense, not SYG, is one must use equal amount of force to fight back. If someone grabs you, you can't just break his nose.
Grrrrr. Here we go again. Lets talk a out SYG as it applies to ALL the rest of us. Martin/Zimmerman be damned. If you are being attacked, have the means to stop said attack,( lets assume the attack is quite violent and criminally motivated) you may do so. With no obligation to submit, try and escape, etc. Lethal force is an option here, because such attacks regularly result in death or permanent maiming. You may "stand your ground" and end the creeps criminal career. This, without fear of prosecution because you didn't placate the vermin or run like a rabbit, perhaps putting loved ones at the mercy of a violent bipred. Under older law, in many locations, the latter is what people were expected to do. Give over complete control of the situation, to the criminal, or become a criminal yourself. Nice hammer and anvil. Residents of homes were even under similar constraint. The bulk of criminal burden, was not on the criminals. In 1986, a case in Reno NV, involving a pair of smash and grab robbers, and an apartment complex manager, grabbed national headlines, when then Washoe county DA Mills Lane, refused to prosecute the apartment manager for shooting tbe robbers, in commission of their crime. The THIRD time that week they had hit the complex.
Ohhhhhh....the network media was up in arms. 60 Minutes rolled in, and 20/20 to, I believe. Merv Griffin chimed in, it was a frenzy of compassion for those poor criminals.
Brother Mills, stood his ground. Told them ALL to pound salt, with the full support of the entire community, save the scumbags, behind him. Soon after, a bill was made law. Dubbed by the media as the "make my day" law, it took control from the criminals. Now, THEY had to live in fear. The law gave citizens the right to use force, up to and including, lethal force, to stop the commision of a violent, or potentially violent, felony, in progress.
The premise being, that, commission of such acts shows complete disregard for law, and it can be assumed that perpetrators are, therefore, a threat to life and property. Again, a media circus. "Cowboys" "Wild West" "Dodge City" on and on. Again, told to pound salt.
Since the law was passed, I can think of only two cases where the law applied, outside of attempted attacks on individuals, mugging type stuff. The original case of the apartment manager, and one where a citizen intervened in an armed robbery of a 7-11, killing both perpetrators as they exited the store. I'm sure there were more, but they were not high profile.
The city did NOT go all Deadwood with people being shot for cheating at cards, as was predicted by the media. Now, with CCW being the law of the land as well, criminals must be even more wary,. Only the hardest core types get overly froggy, and, more often than not, that will be the end of them. One way or another.
Now, we have yowling to go back to the bad old days. Where citizens are required to just roll over. I say, again, POUND SALT!!!
............is part of the history of the Stand Your Ground Laws.
Obama sponsored bill strengthening Stand Your Ground law in Illinois
Now we gotta get rid of it to appease the mob. What a leader.
CHICAGO - This past week President Obama publicly urged the reexamination of state self-defense laws (see remarks below). However, nine years ago then-State Sen. Barack Obama actually co-sponsored a bill that strengthened Illinois' 1961 "stand your ground" law. The Obama-sponsored bill (SB 2386) enlarged the state's 1961 law by shielding the person who was attacked from being sued in civil court by perpetrators or their estates when a "stand your ground" defense is used in protecting his or her person, dwelling or other property.
The bill unanimously passed the Democrat-controlled Illinois Senate on March 25, 2004 with only one comment, and passed the Democrat-controlled Illinois House in May 2004 with only two votes in opposition. Then-Governor Rod Blagojevich (D) signed it into law.
............is part of the history of the stand your ground laws.
obama sponsored bill strengthening stand your ground law in illinois
now we gotta get rid of it to appease the mob. What a leader.
Chicago - this past week president obama publicly urged the reexamination of state self-defense laws (see remarks below). However, nine years ago then-state sen. Barack obama actually co-sponsored a bill that strengthened illinois' 1961 "stand your ground" law. The obama-sponsored bill (sb 2386) enlarged the state's 1961 law by shielding the person who was attacked from being sued in civil court by perpetrators or their estates when a "stand your ground" defense is used in protecting his or her person, dwelling or other property.
The bill unanimously passed the democrat-controlled illinois senate on march 25, 2004 with only one comment, and passed the democrat-controlled illinois house in may 2004 with only two votes in opposition. Then-governor rod blagojevich (d) signed it into law.
You can stand your ground all day long. If Z pushed him or grabbed him, Martin is only allowed to dodge the push or avoid being grabbed. The point of self defense, not SYG, is one must use equal amount of force to fight back. If someone grabs you, you can't just break his nose.
And why not. Why would someone be grabbing me in the first place. I think most would be threatened by this action. Sorry if you break their nose by elbowing them. But you don't know what their intentions are but they have just invaded your space.
And why not. Why would someone be grabbing me in the first place. I think most would be threatened by this action. Sorry if you break their nose by elbowing them. But you don't know what their intentions are but they have just invaded your space.
If someone lays hands on you, you can respond with force. Lethal force might be going to far, but, that depends on HOW they lay their hands on you and what you can reasonably assume their intentions are. Yes, "invading someones space" intentionally, is a good way to get an attitude adjustment. It may sound "sexist" but, a man laying hands on a woman, is a "special circumstance" and the manner and areas invaded bring a LOT of latitude to the response. I don't have an issue with that, though there is a potential for abuse of the rule. That's not a good enough reason to do away with it, however.
Intentionally grabbing someone, in a manner so as to suggest an escalation, is assault. Period. The circumstances of a man grabbing a woman is a personal thing to me. Very. It's just NOT done. Not even "jokingly". The space being invaded could be VERY fragile.
This could be true of anyone, sure, but especially so for a woman who has been victimized. There is no way to know what someones "space" means to them. So people just need to stay OUT of it! Even a seemingly innocuous physical contact can be taken as an invasive grope. It goes without say. Keep your hands to yourself.
And folks chastised John Kerry nonstop for being a flip-flopper but won't touch Obama for being one on this and numerous other issues??
So much for 'fair and balanced journalism', huh?
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