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Not being Black I don't get all nuances here but I agree that Bill O'Reilly is definitely not a well wisher. Lol
I think we're on the same team here on c-d and I can only tell you that sometimes controversy and harsh words are the only way to shake things up. Every ethnic group in the us had to pull itself by bootstraps: the Irish catholic priests were the ones fighting alcoholism amongst the Irish, Italian prosecutors destroyed mafia and I think the Black community need some strong voices as well. It has a lot of good voices now but I don't think they are loud enough. I kind of agree with Lemon that rap culture is not really constructive for the well being of community as it glorifies violence and crime. Some of the Black media focusing on rappers and NBA stars surely makes people feel good about their ethnicity, but it also creates false expectations. Admittedly a lot of these evils plague the rest of American culture as well but somehow they are more pronounced in black community. I had good chess partner who happened to be Black some time ago and he told me that when he was playing outside people would ask him how long was he in, they simply assumed that he learned to play in prison as a pass time.
What I am trying to say is that a lot of things have to change to make things better, both on the inside and outside of the community, and it's going to be tough because many people in the community are absolutely fine with the way things are and many people on the outside are definitely not the well-wishes.....
I think you guys, the educated Blacks, the Black middle-class have an exceptionally tough work cut out for you, as you try to please or bridge both sides and it's sometimes very difficult. Are you guys still being accused of "trying to be white" or is this now gone with Obama in the WH?
In any case I think Lemon had overall good intentions but exercised poor judgement and I can only hope that at some point in time a tv show like Big Bang theory, but with all Black cast, would have a chance of becoming a hit on BET. When do you think this will happen?
I can explain a bit of the nuances. It is not about the message so much but why, the attitude of the person making the message, and whether or not said person is bringing it up for the right reasons. I am with you when I say Bill O'Reilly is not a well-wisher. It is not the message, it is the fact that some people only mention problems in the Black community for the wrong reasons, and often out of anger towards Blacks.
The Black community has some strong voices. Sadly, many things fall on deaf ears. Bill Cosby and mayor Michael Nutter of Philadelphia said some important things to Black people. They went to Black people themselves and addressed certain issues. Th crowds they spoke to seemed to be in agreement with them. However, the persons who should listen the most(i.e those who cause the most problems) are the ones who often won't listen.
On another note, Bill Cosby has gone on his own crusade to get things better. It's been an uphill battle. He is respected by many Black people. However, the persons who should really listen often won't listen.
I would concur that rap music, at least alot of it is not a good thing. However, my point of view is different on this. I look at rap music, not as the cause of all problems, but rather, mirroring problems that have always existed.
Another question: Why do rappers and NBA stars get so much attention?
With the Irish and the Italians, I can't say there hasn't been that idea of "pull one's self up by their bootstraps". Blacks have had to fight too. Blacks were often worse off than anyone else from day one. And as for the mafia and alcoholism, I want to bring something to the table. Alot of Black drug dealers and drug users have been sent to prison. Many aged in prison. Oddly enough, it hasn't stopped alot of problems. Those who are not among the underclass try to get away from such persons.
One thing about being a middle class Black person, at least with me growing up,was this. Being a "nerdy" Black kid, I had issues. Please remember I graduate high school in 2004. I got the "you act White" crap from White kids as well as Black kids. I was also subjected to some racial harassment. I don't know how much things have changed since President Obama took office. President Obama addressed the issue of absent fathers in the Black community. He addressed it, in a crowd of Black people. I can understand where he is coming from because his birth father abandoned him. To my knowledge, there might still be the "you act White" thing going on.
Personally, being in the middle class, this is how I look at it. Whenever many Blacks have attained more education and better incomes, many try to separate themselves from the underclass, from the persons who cause alot of trouble. It is a matter of getting away from those who cause problems, and at the same time, having to prove one's self in another environment. On one hand, one has to prove "I'm not a trouble maker, I'm a hard working person like you" and on the other hand "Just because this person happens to look like me doesn't mean he is like me. He/she needs to get his/her act together".
Don Lemon's biggest mistake was teaming up with Bill O'Reilly. He would have had more credibility if he had just stayed away from FOX News. Why would he go to FOX News?
Could there be a show like the Big Bang Theory, with a Black cast? Well, we had the Cosby Show in the 80s and early 90s. Levar Burton was on Star Trek. However, an all Black cast about nerds, well, I have never thought of that until this moment. It would be something very new, the world has never seen before. I don't know how it would work. I would love to see something like that. Alot of people seem to like Cosmos with Neil deGrasse Tyson. However, a Black sitcom about nerds, well, I have to wonder how some people will receive it. Neil deGrasse Tyson is an older man, so it isn't as big of a deal. However, young Black men featured as nerds, well, there might be some people who look at it as "they act White", and some people who aren't ready to see Black nerds on TV. It could happen tomorrow, but the question is, how will it work out?
Not that I agree with the conservatives but wanted to point out that this is how public opinion works in general.
For instance, most of Italians were not members of mafia but this was the popular perception outside of Italian community.
Unfortunately the trouble making part of the black community is the most visible, both physically and statistically, just like that little segment of Italian community was years ago.
What I find troubling is that the sector of the Black population that is decent, hardworking, and among them, many educated people, that segment gets ignored as a result of so much focus on those who cause trouble. That is what worries me. Most aren't causing trouble, but because so much attention is on those who do cause trouble, those who don't cause trouble get ignored. Bad news gets more attention than good news.
Bill Cosby, on the other hand, actually cares. He actually wants to see people do better, and he puts his money where his mouth is. It was he who donated to HBCU's. He actually went to the people, and started talking to them. In one speech I listened to, he spoke of a woman who, I believe graduated from college or high school, most likely college. He mentioned that she had sorrow for not having her father around, but she wasn't crying because she was emotionally numb(no more tears). He was in a room full of Black people. None of then disagreed with him. I would prefer that Don Lemon team with Bill Cosby
I was going to mention Cosby; do you know what a beating he took from the black community when he started talking about this? All they did was attack him, for "airing our dirty laundry" in public - not an admission there was a problem, not a word that black culture was an abject failure - it was Cosby's fault for bringing it up.
One of the biggest problems with the black community is all of those self-appointed "leaders" like jesse jackson, al sharpton, etc., who are enablers; they want blacks to stay poor, uneducated and dependent upon both government largesse and them for guidance to obtain that government assistance. This will keep them in positions of power which is all they care about, not helping other blacks. The NAACP is another false god the black community needs to excise and exorcise.
Do Blacks value education? A better question is "does the Black underclass value education"?
This is the crux of the issue; what is it that causes the black underclass to believe that education is not respectable, that it is "white" to try and get one, and that it is more respectable to live the gangsta life? The mother of the 15 year old drug dealer Namond in the Wire comes to mind; he wants to go to school and his own mother, to continue live the "good life" as the relative of a drug dealer, and too lazy/unwilling to get a real job, she pressures him into remaining a dealer.
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The bad behavior you describe is an underclass trait, or stuff Blacks don't take into corporate America. I should know. I've seen Black people speak ebonics among one another, but switch to speaking proper English when amongst mostly White people or in a corporate environment.
The issue, in a broad sense, is not that there is not a large percent that "gets it" and dispenses with the gangsta dress/language, etc., it is that such a large percentage of blacks who do believe that the gangsta/urban lifestyle is preferable, and one to admire.
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And something else. You are not Black. This "if I were Black", you do not know what it is to be a Black American.
My family is of mideastern descent, I am quite familiar with minority status.
I was going to mention Cosby; do you know what a beating he took from the black community when he started talking about this? All they did was attack him, for "airing our dirty laundry" in public - not an admission there was a problem, not a word that black culture was an abject failure - it was Cosby's fault for bringing it up.
One of the biggest problems with the black community is all of those self-appointed "leaders" like jesse jackson, al sharpton, etc., who are enablers; they want blacks to stay poor, uneducated and dependent upon both government largesse and them for guidance to obtain that government assistance. This will keep them in positions of power which is all they care about, not helping other blacks. The NAACP is another false god the black community needs to excise and exorcise.
Actually, some Black people were upset that he publicly brought it up. It was "keep it within the Black population". I remember when he was making his speeches. Alot of Black people agreeing with him. Most of the people who were criticizing him were often those who didn't want him saying things in public.
Actually, I don't think Sharpton and Jackson want to keep Blacks poor at all. I think they are in everything just for the money. They're people who have been bought off. You don't know much about them at all. And by the way, they are not leaders. The media makes them out to be leaders. Alot of Black people aren't even paying that much attention to them.
BTW, Black people do not look to the NAACP as God. I don't know what kind of assumption that is.
My family is of mideastern descent, I am quite familiar with minority status.
There is a difference between being a minority and being Black. Blacks have been looked down on and hated from day one in the USA and have been treated much worse, since the days this nation got started.
This is the crux of the issue; what is it that causes the black underclass to believe that education is not respectable, that it is "white" to try and get one, and that it is more respectable to live the gangsta life? The mother of the 15 year old drug dealer Namond in the Wire comes to mind; he wants to go to school and his own mother, to continue live the "good life" as the relative of a drug dealer, and too lazy/unwilling to get a real job, she pressures him into remaining a dealer.
What is it that causes underclass persons of ANY ethnicity to disregard education?
My issue has always been the right-wing IGNORANCE of the black community.
This just in... most black people never go to jail, never commit a crime, ....
You should change your 'corrector of lies' tag to 'promoter of lies'. Also, Don Sterling needs to pay someone to hold up his face. It just looks really horrible. Why are you defending him? Clearly, your ignorance is beyond foolish, so there is no need to dismantle your post point by point. You have destroyed your credibility with regard to rational though and critical thinking on your own. Also, you may want to talk to just one out of many of those Indian girls and women who have had acid thrown on them for pursuing an education. These girls and women are unrecognizable now, and are banished from their communities. I haven't even got to honor killings yet. Any how, keep pointing the finger at "THE BLACKS." Lol. I would tell you to stop thinking commenting on us, but clearly, we are in the deepest parts of your brain. You couldn't stop think about Black people if you tried. Get in line, many others can't stop either. Lol.
When you have something intelligent to add to the conversation, we are all ears.
I have a lots of respect for Mr. Cosby as he was never afraid to voice his own opinion even if it was not plausible and would make him look like "Uncle Tom". It takes a lot of courage to be honest to people you love.
And the thing about Bill Cosby, is that you could tell that he actually cares. He actually was trying to get people to think. Some of what he might have said wasn't always conventional. However, many people could tell he had a stake in this. He didn't work on behalf of any politician or anyone else. What annoyed some people was how public he was about it.
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I wouldn't argue that rap was born out of a social necessity of sorts, however since than it has degenerated into "MTV rap", something that's a far cry from its humble beginnings. Today, the culture and image that many black (and white) kids try to emulate is the image of violence and crime. Gangsta rap. Hey, we both know where saggy pants and sneakers with no shoelaces came from. Rappers try to emulate gangsters and kids in turn try to emulate rappers. Me, I d rather see kids dreaming about becoming a doctor or pharmacist than a rapper or NBA star, if not for any other reason then because chances of becoming a successful rapper or NBA star are minimal and unrealized dreams lead to disillusionment, alienation and anger.
And rap music degenerating, well, a big part had to do with money. Record producers were offering rappers alot of money to rap about glorifying misogyny, violence, and selling drugs. The disturbing subculture was already there. Rap music just provided a medium for it.
As for the saggy pants, yep, prison. And what is ironic is this. Homophobic attitudes can be found among many rappers. And yet, in prison, sagging pants meant being open to sex, most likely with a prisoner of the same gender.
Kids emulate what they think is cool. Oddly enough, I can remember when I was in school, the main White kids who would sag their pants were skateboarders. My father told me that the style of baggy pants came from when kids in the ghetto couldn't afford clothes and had to wear hand-me-downs.
However, why this is often affecting Black kids, well, I can think of one thing: internalization. I think for a White kid, emulating that style is looked at as "the cool thing to do at that moment". It is viewed as something different. For many Black kids, this makes up a sizable number of the images they see of other Black people.
The chances of a Black kid becoming a doctor, lawyer, teacher, or engineer are far higher than becoming a rapper or basketball player. There are more Black doctors than there are Blacks in the NBA. This needs to be one of the first things taught in school, probabilities.
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For the same reason Kardashians and rock stars are celebrities: easy money and easy life. Who wouldn't want that? Lol
I have no respect for the Kardashians either. All Kim K is to me is a pretty face. Other than that, NO. Same goes for Jersey Shore. Stupid stuff of MTV. Stupidity gets glorified on TV
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What I meant though was that there was some "pulling down" in the Black community, as in "why do you try, you're Black so you won't make it anyway, unless you're a football or basketball player". I think Obama changed this psychological perspective, being a role model to many aspiring Blacks, especially from small towns: yes, it can be done. You can be Black and really successful outside of basketball court. There is a point to your struggle.
Oh, crabs in a barrel. Dr. King talked about that.
President Obama could serve as an important role model for many Black youths. Someone who has shown you can do something besides sports or music. We also need to put others out there took, like Tavis Smiley, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Dr. Ben Carson, and many others. Sadly, it is the rappers and basketball players who get far more fame. Everything is about instant fame and fortune.
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That happens to every ethnicity, you don't necessarily identify yourselves with people that look like you but more with people who act like you and think like you. Happens to me all the time.
There is a tendency to identify with those who behave like you. At the same time, there are times when people identify with those who look like them. What I was specifically of was the struggle of being in a position where one has to prove themselves on two different fronts.
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Beats me. I'd never go to FN with anything, but I still hope there was a logic to this madness though, maybe something that we're not aware of yet?
Whatever logic there was, it still was a bad idea. Maybe he wanted attention.
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I think it would work out very well by giving some hope to all the Black nerds out there, those who are still struggling with their cultural identity and are afraid of acting "nerdy" in own community. I think until then Matrix will have to do for a cult movie of all the Black nerds out there
Such a show would be good for Black nerds out there. I feel like many Black kids who are "nerds", are sometimes ignored or the things they face, it is never really looked at. Maybe they might serve as a "running gag", but apart from that, very little is touched on when it comes to what they face.
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