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If I hate "black people" it means "black people." "Black people" and "black American people" are two different categories.
In short, we're talking about American Blacks, you bring in Africans, I point out we're talking about American Blacks, and you cop a cry-fest? Read a little further down for how I prove you're a liar/willfully stupid.
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His apartment complex was 20% black. There were plenty of black kids in the complex. And Tyrone was not "a kid," he was a 5'9 young man a few months away from being old enough to vote and old enough to join the military with his parent's permission.
Wonder why the prosecution never tried to say it was a hate crime? Because there wasn't a single solitary shred of evidence it was. Zimmerman grew up in a mixed household and his best friend is black. A black man was beaten by the police and Zimmerman organized a rally against police brutality and tried to get the NAACP involved:source George Zimmerman Complained About Sanford Police in Defense of Homeless Black Man Now, how many of the people who lynched Emmit Till had organized rallies for black men? How many of them were obviously non-white as Zimmerman is?
There is no evidence at all that it had anything to do with race other than the fact that Tyrone was of the same race, AMONGST OTHER THINGS (same gender, around the same height, around the same age) as the person who broke into several apartments in the months before the incident.
And? That doesn't give him any rights over who he thinks are suspects.
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So calling the police for someone who fits the description of the robber is the same as dragging someone out of his home and beating him to a pulp. Okay.
Stop trying to create strawmen. I've explicitly said what's comparable between the two cases. At this point it's a reflection on your own intelligence if you want keep trying to ignore that.
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Translation: "I refuse to say the Sikh Temple shooting, in which a number of people in a temple, minding their own business, was just as bad as a lynching, much more so than what happened to Tyrone Martin, because I, as most blacks, believe that only we face discrimination in America."
Not too many blacks were in an uproar over that. Why is that?
Translation: You got involved in a thread about a specific thing. If you're too immature to stay on point about that specific thing you've willingly involved yourself in, that's no skin off my back.
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Now, will blacks, feeling a sense of unity with another minority that also faces persecution (the transgendered) not visit Jamaica for vacation? Nope. A few may, but most will just shrug and go on about their business.
For the most part, blacks only care when someone is going after them and never stand up for anyone else. Whites will march for blacks and immigrants, gays will march for blacks, but when have blacks ever stood besides anyone else?
And thank you for proving yourself to be a liar/willfully stupid. You just made the point:
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"Black people" and "black American people" are two different categories.
Yet here you are using "black people" as a stand in for "Black American people." See, I don't need things spelled out for me, so I was able to understand that. That you had a problem w/ differentiating that is a reflection on your own mental... shortcoming...
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So, if he thought "he had the power" than why did he even bother to call the police?
Doesn't matter why he called the police. It doesn't change why he decided to chase after TM.
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No real evidence that anything of the sort happened. He was CHARGED with assault but never convicted.
Riiiiight. Somehow being charged as an adult for a crime is inadmissible. Having it on file that you had a workplace mediation is inadmissible. But being suspended from school for suspicion is ironclad proof...
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Again, for the FOURTH TIME: if Zimmerman had touched Tyrone, he would have left at least some mark on him, even if it was a bruise from a punch that Tyrone blocked. Instead, the only wounds on Tyrone were the gunshot wound and some scratches on his knuckles. So either Zimmerman punched him on the hand or he beat up Zimmerman before Zimmerman threw a punch. Which one is more likely?
Most people know/knew someone that has been in a fight and had no marks to tell the day after. If you can't understand how it can happen that someone else starts a fight and leaves no marks, then figure out how to make some friends.
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And if Tyrone was so scared that he went to fisticuffs, why not call his father and tell him to come out side? He was on his phone after all. He could have done a hundred things differently, but instead he broke the law by laying his hands on Zimmerman. Even if Zimmerman had SAID SOMETHING that is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE to physically attack another human being.
And we're back at it...
That is uncorroborated. At best, the evidence is circumstantial based entirely on how you want to interpret it.
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In short, we're talking about American Blacks, you bring in Africans, I point out we're talking about American Blacks, and you cop a cry-fest? Read a little further down for how I prove you're a liar/willfully stupid.
Keep it up with the Ad hominem attacks. It makes me look good
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And? That doesn't give him any rights over who he thinks are suspects.
He called the police, and that was well within his right.
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Stop trying to create strawmen. I've explicitly said what's comparable between the two cases. At this point it's a reflection on your own intelligence if you want keep trying to ignore that.
So let me get this straight...
Emmit Till murderers: they thought they had the right to beat up and murder a 14 year old and gang up on him=Zimmerman...who thought he had the right to follow and call the police on someone he thought looked suspicious. Okay
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Translation: You got involved in a thread about a specific thing. If you're too immature to stay on point about that specific thing you've willingly involved yourself in, that's no skin off my back.
The specific thing is the comparison of Emmit Till and Tyrone Martin. I said that that is an awful comparison, and that a better comparison would be that poor transwoman who was killed in Jamaica or the victims of the Sikh Temple shooting, and that most blacks won't even say it was awful what happened in those cases and hence they share the same mindset as the people who defended the lynchers of Emmit Till. You have done nothing but confirm my point.
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Yet here you are using "black people" as a stand in for "Black American people." See, I don't need things spelled out for me, so I was able to understand that. That you had a problem w/ differentiating that is a reflection on your own mental... shortcoming...
If I am obviously speaking of blacks in America, it will be obvious.
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Doesn't matter why he called the police. It doesn't change why he decided to chase after TM.
WHILE he was following Tyrone he called the police. The police told him to stop, and he complied. Those are the facts. Here they are again for you to ignore once more:
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At 2:07, Zimmerman tells the dispatcher, “He’s running.”
At 2:09, you can hear a car door open and an alarm begins that is undoubtedly the “door open, keys in ignition” warning on Zimmerman’s truck.
At 2:13, you can clearly hear the car door slamming shut, and the alarm stops.
At 2:17, Zimmerman’s voice wobbles and he starts breathing heavily into the phone, indicating that he has started running.
At 2:22, without any prompting other than the aforementioned noises and breathing, the dispatcher asks “Are you following him?” to which Zimmerman responds, “Yeah.”
At 2:26, the dispatcher says, “Okay, we don’t need you to do that,” to which Zimmerman responds, “Okay.”
Zimmerman proceeds to give the dispatcher his name. Then he says, “He ran.”
Riiiiight. Somehow being charged as an adult for a crime is inadmissible. Having it on file that you had a workplace mediation is inadmissible. But being suspended from school for suspicion is ironclad proof...
Suspended from school means the disciplinary actions were taken. Zimmerman never had disciplinary actions taken against him (i.e., never convicted)
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Most people know/knew someone that has been in a fight and had no marks to tell the day after. If you can't understand how it can happen that someone else starts a fight and leaves no marks, then figure out how to make some friends.
Yes, if they started the fight. How could Zimmerman have thrown Martin down without leaving a mark on him?
And why would he even do that if he had a gun? If he really was so "ready for violence against a poor black kid", why wouldn't he just pull his gun out and point it at him?
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That is uncorroborated. At best, the evidence is circumstantial based entirely on how you want to interpret it.
Vs Tyrone's friend who said he called Zimmerman a "creepy *** cracker" that shows the state of mind of the two, the injuries are Zimmerman vs Tyrone's lack there of, the eyewitness who saw Zimmerman being beaten, the fact that Martin could have gone home, called the police, called his father or called anyone but didn't, Tyrone's recent history of violence and drug use (which, btw, wasn't even brought up at the trial) all points to one thing: it was self defense.
So go ahead, provide more of your ad hominem attacks and extended vowels within words, because as we can all see the facts are in favor of Zimmerman acting in self defense.
And by all means, continue being completely unable to see the real modern day Emmit Tills: the victims of the Sikh Temple shooting. None of the blacks on this thread have even been able to type these five words: IT WAS A RACIST ATTACK.
Why? Because doing so would be admitting that blacks are not the only people on Earth who face discrimination, something they are unwilling to do.
And I am going to sum it up as such: I have posted FACTS. You have provided OPINIONS. Which have more weight?
Actually most of the things that you posted came from right wing blogs and the things that I said were speculation are just that everything else is factual
If you bothered to look at any of the FACTS I posted links to (like the transcript of the call he made to the police where they NEVER SAID to stay in the car but told him "we don't need you to do that" when he said he was following him, AFTER he had been following him which is different from being told "don't follow him" at the start) You would see. You seem to have a hatred of facts.
I never said that they said that and I know that they told him that "You don't need to that" in reference to him following Trayvon, so why do you keep saying that I did?
As for "who' s black," you have lost all credibility. If Zimmerman isn't black despite being about 1/4 black, than I'm not black despite being less than 1/2 black. Neither of us could go to a KKK rally...does that mean we're both black? If so, than Tyrone was a victim of black on black crime.
I think that you have me confused with someone else, because I never once questioned yours or zimmerman's "blackness" because, well personally I can care less. I also want to mention if you are so "factual" why do you insist on calling him "tyrone"? when his name is Trayvon.
As for "shared experience," I have never shared the experience of hating white America for no good reason, thinking the world owes me something because some of my ancestors were slaves, or shared the experience of enjoying pigs feet and Tyler Perry movies. I have faced a little prejudice from being brown (people asking me if I speak English and shouting the "s" word from passing cars) but I guarantee you Zimmerman has too.
What in the Hell are you talking about? If all that you got out of what I shared with you is hating white america it is no wonder that you are so confused and bewildered black/white relations in this country. I never once mention anything about white america or anyone owing me or anyone else anything, so why don't you quit making things up.
And I noticed you never said the Sikh Temple shooting was a modern day lynching. Thank you for showing your true colors. Keep staying in your fantasy world in which only blacks face discrimination and in which blacks are the only minority group on Earth.
Actually that was cold blooded murder, and for your own education a lynching normally consist of more than one person
Typical black behavior: wanting everyone to bow down before a perceived injustice when the facts say otherwise while at the same time not giving a damn about the real injustice many non-black minorities face. There is a reason why you never see any "black leader" marching for immigrants or women or gays, but the same "black leaders" expect gays, women and immigrants to march for them.
Guess what bright boy? Those respective groups already have their own leaders and they are represented very well and therefore never ask for "black leadership" because they are not needed, besides that is proaby why they are called "BLACK LEADERS"
Daniel Adkins was the real modern day Emmit Till: shot while not hurting anyone by a man who could have easily just gone on about his business. A man who wasn't even arrested or detained. And no blacks seem to care because it was "a real brotha' " that did the shooting. Despicable.
I see talking to you is worst then talking to some of the obvious racist on this forum. With them at least I understand why they feel the way that they do, but with you a self hating confused person who has a total disdain for the sterotypical black veiwed through eyes of the ignorant. I figure eventually you will learn about the truth of racism and life in general instead of living in your petty make-believe world of the innocent white person and the guilty of everything negro
Keep it up with the Ad hominem attacks. It makes me look good
No it doesn’t. My points are there, w/ or w/o the “AH” attacks.
If you want to cry about me calling out your willful stupidity/lies, then maybe you should stop being willfully stupid and lying? I would afford you all the respect of an adult w/ full formed opinions if you would discuss things in good faith. If that’s something you refuse to do, that’s on you, not me.
And on a side note, that you continue to disrespect TM by calling him Tyrone, Tylenol, etc automatically discounts you from getting an iota of respect from me. Frankly, if the Mods would allow me more leeway for personal attacks, trust that I would push things to that limit. So before you go pulling out your soft card, ask yourself why I should give you more than the bare minimum level of respect that doesn’t break the TOS?
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He called the police, and that was well within his right.
And if had stopped there, there would never have been a TM/GZ issue.
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So let me get this straight...
Emmit Till murderers: they thought they had the right to beat up and murder a 14 year old and gang up on him=Zimmerman...who thought he had the right to follow and call the police on someone he thought looked suspicious. Okay
GZ rights do not allow him to stalk/harass/threaten/compel someone to do thing just for walking in “his” neighborhood. The only reason GZ would have gotten out of his car is if he believed he had that power over TM.
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The specific thing is the comparison of Emmit Till and Tyrone Martin. I said that that is an awful comparison, and that a better comparison would be that poor transwoman who was killed in Jamaica or the victims of the Sikh Temple shooting, and that most blacks won't even say it was awful what happened in those cases and hence they share the same mindset as the people who defended the lynchers of Emmit Till. You have done nothing but confirm my point.
Just b/c you think there are better comparisons, doesn’t make TM/ET uncomparable. There’s an even better comparison than the two examples you picked: the murder of James Byrd. Does that mean that you two you picked are now invalid? No. Please tell me you don’t need me to explain this further.
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If I am obviously speaking of blacks in America, it will be obvious.
So when I say “liking Black things like Jay-Z,” does that suggest I’m talking about American Blacks or Blacks all over the world including Ancient Africans?
And you’re getting mad at me for calling out your willful stupidity. If you don’t like it, then stop doing it.
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WHILE he was following Tyrone he called the police. The police told him to stop, and he complied. Those are the facts. Here they are again for you to ignore once more:
He stopped following when he told the cops, yet still couldn’t make it back to his truck in the time it would have taken TM to run TO and FROM the house he was staying at? Riiiiiiiiiight.
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Suspended from school means the disciplinary actions were taken. Zimmerman never had disciplinary actions taken against him (i.e., never convicted)
What do you think workplace mediation is? How do you plead down from assault if there’s no disciplinary action?
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Yes, if they started the fight. How could Zimmerman have thrown Martin down without leaving a mark on him?
HAHAHA!
Wait… are you serious?
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And why would he even do that if he had a gun? If he really was so "ready for violence against a poor black kid", why wouldn't he just pull his gun out and point it at him?
Vs Tyrone's friend who said he called Zimmerman a "creepy *** cracker" that shows the state of mind of the two, the injuries are Zimmerman vs Tyrone's lack there of, the eyewitness who saw Zimmerman being beaten, the fact that Martin could have gone home, called the police, called his father or called anyone but didn't, Tyrone's recent history of violence and drug use (which, btw, wasn't even brought up at the trial) all points to one thing: it was self defense.
So go ahead, provide more of your ad hominem attacks and extended vowels within words, because as we can all see the facts are in favor of Zimmerman acting in self defense.
All I need to throw a wrench in you narrative: GZ stopped following TM when he said he did, and somehow wasn’t able to make it back to his car in the time it would have taken TM to run TO and FROM the house he stayed at? Riiiiiiiiiiight.
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And by all means, continue being completely unable to see the real modern day Emmit Tills: the victims of the Sikh Temple shooting. None of the blacks on this thread have even been able to type these five words: IT WAS A RACIST ATTACK.
Why? Because doing so would be admitting that blacks are not the only people on Earth who face discrimination, something they are unwilling to do.
Most Civil Rights activists are constantly talking about the adverse impacts of SYSTEMIC discrimination against Blacks AND BROWNS. If other groups are facing systemic discrimination, I expect anyone that cares about Civil Rights to take up their cause. As it is now, those victims tend to be one of the two that get most activism.
Side note: what have YOU done in support of the CR of non-Blacks. I take it for all your protesting about how unfair the Sikh shooting victims have been treated, YOU'VE been doing something to bring attention to their plight...
[quote=EddieB.Good;30943638]No it doesn’t. My points are there, w/ or w/o the “AH” attacks.
If you want to cry about me calling out your willful stupidity/lies, then maybe you should stop being willfully stupid and lying? I would afford you all the respect of an adult w/ full formed opinions if you would discuss things in good faith. If that’s something you refuse to do, that’s on you, not me.
And on a side note, that you continue to disrespect TM by calling him Tyrone, Tylenol, etc automatically discounts you from getting an iota of respect from me. Frankly, if the Mods would allow me more leeway for personal attacks, trust that I would push things to that limit. So before you go pulling out your soft card, ask yourself why I should give you more than the bare minimum level of respect that doesn’t break the TOS?
If he does'nt consider himself to be part of the black experience, why would you expect him to do anything about it? I'm starting to picture him as another O.J or Tiger Woods or anyone else that feel like they are abouve racism until it hits them personally and only then will they find out how black that they really are.
I live in the greater Pittsburgh area and followed both of these cases closely. I do believe Gammage was murdered, but Jordan Miles injuries were mostly sustained from falling on his face while running from the police and fighting/resisting arrest. The police told him to stop and he decided he was going to run. If you run from the police it is almost an admission of guilt.
I also lived in Pittsburgh for the greater part of my life and I know first hand how racist that it can be there. First of all YOU CANNOT GET YOUR DREDS PULLED OUT FROM FALLING! Secondly, he was running from whitemen in a black neighborhood that did not identify themselves in the dark. Finally, why is if a black persons runs out of fear he is guilty, but if he does not run and faces his attackers (Trayvon) he is wrong?
The police did identify themselves and he decided to run, when the police had him down he said "you're not taking me to jail" and kept fighting.How is it he did not know they were police when he made this statement? And yes, the cops probably pulled his hair out in the altercation, I don't deny this. And just for your info, I know several white guys that were beaten by the Pgh police, they do not discriminate, they beat everyone equally. In all honesty, they are no worse than any other big city police.
The police did identify themselves and he decided to run, when the police had him down he said "you're not taking me to jail" and kept fighting.How is it he did not know they were police when he made this statement? And yes, the cops probably pulled his hair out in the altercation, I don't deny this. And just for your info, I know several white guys that were beaten by the Pgh police, they do not discriminate, they beat everyone equally. In all honesty, they are no worse than any other big city police.
Proably not as bad, but can you point out ONE cop that has went to jail for killing a black person? I will agree that an occasional white person will get a beatdown but alot of blacks in their own neighborhoods are catching hell.
If he does'nt consider himself to be part of the black experience, why would you expect him to do anything about it? I'm starting to picture him as another O.J or Tiger Woods or anyone else that feel like they are abouve racism until it hits them personally and only then will they find out how black that they really are.
Again, for about the 19th time, I will ask the questions that will not be answered:
1) Are there not other races besides black and white? Blacks seem to think so...so I guess China is filled with white people?
2) Are blacks the only people who face racism? So if a Latino is beaten up for being Latino, was that because he was actually black or was it not a hate crime? (despite the red laces and white power t-shirt on the attack )
So if someone is treated badly because they are non-white, does that mean they are black and a part of the "black experience"? If so, than I guess "blacks" include: (inhales deeply)
Chinese
Koreans
Japanese
Indians
Sri Lankans
Native Americans
Romani (Gypsies)
Arabs
Native Siberians
Malaysians
Thais
Hmongs
Simoans...well, those who aren't hypocrites will get the picture.
So either there are a lot of "black people" on Earth, or there are other groups besides blacks and whites. Including groups like (inhales deeply again)
Coloureds
Basters
Creoles
Melungeons
Pardos
Red Bones
Goffals
Mulattoes
All mixed race groups with African and European heritage, all distinct from either.
So, if someone is discriminated against because they are Chinese, is it because they are black? No, it's simply because they are non-white. They aren't black because they don't share the black culture, appearance, or DNA. I see...
Now if someone is discriminated because they are mixed race, is it because they are mixed race, is it because they are black? No, it's simply because they are non-white. They aren't black because they don't share the black culture, appearance, or DNA.
But of course, the above logic will be ignored. So many blacks love to believe that they are the only ethnic group on Earth besides whites and that they are certainly the only people who have ever been oppressed or that are discriminated against because of their race.
In the eyes of the black man, this is not a hate crime because it targeted non-blacks:
And Zimmerman's quadroon butt will probably face racism and has probably faced it at some point in his life already. Does that mean he's black? He does have black DNA...
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And yes, the cops probably pulled his hair out in the altercation, I don't deny this.
And just for your info, I know several white guys that were beaten by the Pgh police, they do not discriminate, they beat everyone equally. In all honesty, they are no worse than any other big city police.
