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Apparently you have not been in many fights in your life because the only way that this scenario was even possible is if zimmerman LET him hit beat him like he did.
Or if Tyrone got the drop on him. I've been in and seen plenty of fights. In street fights, usually the guy who lands the first punch wins, because he can follow it up with punch after punch. If you can block, you can win. But, even blocked will leave a bruise. I got into a fight when I was eighteen and the thug tried to sucker punch me. I deflected it Hung Gar style and managed to kick that thug in the groin and win, but still, I had a bruise on my forearm from blocking it. Even if Tyrone had blocked the punch, he would have some sign of being assaulted.
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I have seen professional boxers get hit back by women and even smaller men and have left a mark. I just find it har to believe that a grown man who took self defense classes AND just happened to be well educated in the SYG laws could not be more scutinized. Just because Trayvon left evidence of getting the best of zimmerman still does not prove that he did not provoke or grab Trayvon in the begining.
Zimmerman walked back to his van when he was assaulted. In the four minutes between hanging up the phone on the police and walking back, what happened? All we have is Zimmerman on the phone with the police, polite and saying he will comply and Tyrone on the phone with his friend saying that he was being followed by, IN HIS OWN WORDS, "a creepy *** cracker".
And Zimmerman was scrutinized. He was taken into custody by police and questioned for six hours. The police decided it wasn't stand your ground because when you're face down in the dirt being assaulted, you can't be expected to retreat. They looked at the injuries on Zimmerman and the 911 call where a witness said he was being beaten and let him go.
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If I poked you in the chest, verbally attacked, threatened you and finally grabbed and threw you to the ground and you came back at me by beating the crap out of me and I shot you, who would be at fault if no one seen the begining of the confrontation?
There is not a shred of forensic evidence that Zimmerman threw him to the ground. Not one. That would have left a bruise or something. There was no grass or mud smeared on Tyrone's close except for what was on the back, after he was shot. If he was thrown down it would have been all over him.
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Granted I know that this can be considered to be all hypothetical, but bare in mind that it is possible that it could have happened
"Possible" is not "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." When you put emotions aside and look at the evidence and the two people involved and their histories, no rational person will come to any conclusion aside from the fact that Zimmerman made some mistakes, but nothing criminal.
Now, compared to Emmit Till who made NO MISTAKES and was DRAGGED OUT OF HIS HOUSE and BRUTALLY KILLED IN COLD BLOOD BY A GANG OF PEOPLE, we see how idiotic the comparison is.
I can't believe that after all this time people are still discussing the hero who killed the thug.. Give it up, it's over. the world is a better place now
Like I said before, you did not follow this case too well did you? Trayvon did not have the option of telling his father anything because he WAS NOT HOME! Now if he was who is to say that he would'nt have done that. That is fine and dandy but, who is to say what reallly happened on that night except for zimmerman's who's word is not worth toilet paper! There is no proof that zimmerman did not grab Trayvon or even took a swing at him, it is all speculation but it is still possible that it could have happened. The really sad thing is when grown men try to place themselves in the shoes of a young black teenager on that night. Sadly, given the same situation many of them would have proably done the same thing Trayvon did if they were his age and someone was folowing them in the dark
He had a cell phone and he easily could have called his father. And if Zimmerman did grab and/or throw Tyrone, there would have been some forensic evidence. All there was was a little mud on his knees and pants and scratches on his knuckles, further confirming the story that he was kneeling down and punching Zimmerman. If there were no bruises on him at all and no injuries except for the gunshot wound.
I was a young, non-white teenager too, and I grew up in a ghetto. Guess what? I never started a fight, especially not with an adult. If an adult had told me he was calling the police I would have been polite and waited for the police, because I knew I had done nothing wrong.
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Uh, not quite the same thing. The average young black man does not have the knowledge of wines like you do, so naturally it would have been a suprise to him. That is nothing different than a blackman in hip-hop gear going into a chinese restaurant and ordering his food in Mandarin.
You story does answer a question about you that I often wondered about and that is why you have such a distain for the less educated folks that surround you and why they treat you the way that do.
Not to sound egotistical, but I am a Sommelier and I have more wine knowledge than most non-food and wine geeks. My point is that when someone assumes one is ignorant and 'thugish' simply because of his or her ethnicity, one is best obliged to do the opposite of confirming the said bigot's preconceptions and to behave one's self.
As for my admitted disdain for American riff raff of African descent, my reason is simple: I come from the same place many of them did. I too was raised non-white in a lower income, mostly black slum colloquially referred to as "the ghetto". I too had a difficult upbringing. But low and behold, I am far from a "down4life N***". How? Simple: I educated myself.
There is no excuse for being a ruffian. Everyone, no matter how impoverished, can afford to behave themselves. Instead of "headin' ta' da' projects ta' hang out wit da' crew and make dat money," perhaps they could do what I did: go to the FREE PUBLIC LIBRARY and read. As opposed to "sellin' dat smack" they may want to try getting a job as a bus boy and working their way up to a decent forty-thousand dollars a year. And even if they can't find a good job which, I more than readily admit, is harder and harder to do in America, they can always afford to behave themselves.
Indeed, "poverty" does have some trapped..."the ghetto", however, is an attitude that one can easily shed if they so choose.
Or if Tyrone got the drop on him. I've been in and seen plenty of fights. In street fights, usually the guy who lands the first punch wins, because he can follow it up with punch after punch. If you can block, you can win. But, even blocked will leave a bruise. I got into a fight when I was eighteen and the thug tried to sucker punch me. I deflected it Hung Gar style and managed to kick that thug in the groin and win, but still, I had a bruise on my forearm from blocking it. Even if Tyrone had blocked the punch, he would have some sign of being assaulted.
Hmmm, but if you are following someone that you don't know and you are harrassing them (because he was following him and did not identify himself) why would'nt you be on your guard? Unless you knew what was going to happen and only protected yourself from serious injury which he did
Zimmerman walked back to his van when he was assaulted. In the four minutes between hanging up the phone on the police and walking back, what happened? All we have is Zimmerman on the phone with the police, polite and saying he will comply and Tyrone on the phone with his friend saying that he was being followed by, IN HIS OWN WORDS, "a creepy *** cracker".
Are we talking about the same case? 1. Zimmerman did not comply to the Dispatcher's request not to follow 2. Trayvon's body was found between two houses meaning that the zimmerman had to at least meet him halfway and away from his truck which parked on the other side of the house 3. The phone call occurred while Trayvon was walking away (being followed) zimmerman.
WRONG AGAIN! Trayvon was taller but not bigger than zimmerman, nor was he trained to be an MMA fighter. You really should either get the transcripts of the case or quit listening to those right wing talk shows
And Zimmerman was scrutinized. He was taken into custody by police and questioned for six hours. The police decided it wasn't stand your ground because when you're face down in the dirt being assaulted, you can't be expected to retreat. They looked at the injuries on Zimmerman and the 911 call where a witness said he was being beaten and let him go.
Nope, the arresting officer did not believe zimmerman and wanted to keep him, but was instructed to let him go. His appearance should not give him automatic immunity from a proper investigation. Question, why was'nt he tested for drugs/alcohol? Why was'nt his truck impounded for evidence? Why was'nt the crime scene properly perserved?
Regardless how you may feel about how those around you may act but that is not the way that all young blacks act, and nor are all whites/legal system have your best interest at heart. If you ever have any spare time you should go down to the courthouse and sit in on a few cases like I did and you will see differences in how lawyers and judges act towards certain people when they should all be treated the same way
There is not a shred of forensic evidence that Zimmerman threw him to the ground. Not one. That would have left a bruise or something. There was no grass or mud smeared on Tyrone's close except for what was on the back, after he was shot. If he was thrown down it would have been all over him.
There also is not one that can prove that zimmerman did not either. If he grabbed Trayvon anywhere it would not have left a bruise/mark either. If you can believe that zimmerman's minor bruises were "life threatening" is too hard to believe that he could have gotten the same bruise when he fell? As far as his clothes being dirty, look at zimmerman's clothes they were barely wet and everyone knew that he was on the ground. So how can you tell that Trayvon's back was not wet from being pushed down verses after zimmerman alledgly rolled him over? You can't.
"Possible" is not "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt." When you put emotions aside and look at the evidence and the two people involved and their histories, no rational person will come to any conclusion aside from the fact that Zimmerman made some mistakes, but nothing criminal.
True but "not guilty" does not mean the same as innocent either. Emotionally, the only ties to this case is that I have two sons a little older than Trayvon and I'm fully aware of the unequal legal system and how enough money can affect almost any verdict. I have had freinds get railroaded into prison based on the word of a liar as well. I will agree that zimmerman did make mistakes that were not criminal
Now, compared to Emmit Till who made NO MISTAKES and was DRAGGED OUT OF HIS HOUSE and BRUTALLY KILLED IN COLD BLOOD BY A GANG OF PEOPLE, we see how idiotic the comparison is.
Here are some of your "idiotic" the comparison actually are:
1. Both were young blackmales who were not doing anything illegal
2. Both were killed by non-black people
3. Both killers were not charged for their crimes
4. In both cases the police directly or indirectly had some involement (or lack of)
5. Both cases forced the country to bring up a dialogue on racial relations in this country
6. Both cases were supported by racists who came out of the woodwork
7. In both cases nothing changed, laws or attitudes towards racial relations
I will repeat this question, if Trayvon had been a straight A student and never got into any trouble would you still feel the same way about him? Look up the Miles Jordan case in Pittsburgh and read the reactions from some of the racist who actually blame him for getting beat within an inch of his life from running from some white officers who never identified themselves.
I can't believe that after all this time people are still discussing the hero who killed the thug.. Give it up, it's over. the world is a better place now
Actually your ignorance really does not warrant a respectable reply
Second, the dispatcher never told Zimmerman to stay in the van. He left the van and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow Martin and Zimmerman hung up. Here are some more of those annoying little "facts": Blog: More lies from the main stream media about the Zimmerman case
Third, forensic examiners would have found any marks on Martin. They found none, other than scratches on his hand from punching Zimmerman.
Fourth, the wounds on Zimmerman weren't "minor bumps and bruises"
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Originally Posted by simetime
Here are some of your "idiotic" the comparison actually are:
1. Both were young blackmales who were not doing anything illegal
Was there any possibility that Till had attacked anyone and that his attackers acted in self defense? No. Tyrone Martin? Not so much...
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2. Both were killed by non-black people
So thank you for not believing in the one drop rule. I hate it too. Zimmerman is not black and neither am I and neither is Obama.
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3. Both killers were not charged for their crimes
Than what the hell was the trial about?
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4. In both cases the police directly or indirectly had some involement (or lack of)
5. Both cases forced the country to bring up a dialogue on racial relations in this country
Yes, and so did the OJ trial...now, what he did and got away with was a lot closer to a lynching than anything Zimmerman did. And what did blacks do when he got away with killing a white woman?
7. In both cases nothing changed, laws or attitudes towards racial relations
Burden of proof. Zimmerman was not found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and hence the system works.
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I will repeat this question, if Trayvon had been a straight A student and never got into any trouble would you still feel the same way about him?
If he was a good kid he wouldn't have started the fight and he wouldn't be on suspension at his father's house in the first place.
James Byrd, who was dragged to death, was the victim of a hate crime. A horrible hate crime. The victims if the Sikh temple shooting were hate crime victims. Tyrone Martin? He was the "victim" or a N ***a moment:
Look up the Miles Jordan case in Pittsburgh and read the reactions from some of the racist who actually blame him for getting beat within an inch of his life from running from some white officers who never identified themselves.
Completely different case and absolutely horrible. Just like when poor Amadou Diallo was murdered by some trigger happy NYPD thugs.
Why don't you read about the Daniel Adkin's murder, where a black man shot and killed a mentally disabled hispanic armed with nothing but the dog he was walking and didn't even get detained, despite the fact that the black man who killed him, Cordell Jude, could easily have driven off. Read and watch black America's reaction...oh, they aren't having one.
[/b] He had a cell phone and he easily could have called his father. And if Zimmerman did grab and/or throw Tyrone, there would have been some forensic evidence. All there was was a little mud on his knees and pants and scratches on his knuckles, further confirming the story that he was kneeling down and punching Zimmerman. If there were no bruises on him at all and no injuries except for the gunshot wound.
Called his father for him to do what? He was not even in the complex at all. I explain all of this in my last post
I was a young, non-white teenager too, and I grew up in a ghetto. Guess what? I never started a fight, especially not with an adult. If an adult had told me he was calling the police I would have been polite and waited for the police, because I knew I had done nothing wrong.
If that is what happened I could understand that but you can't say without a doubt that is what happened. I just find it amazing that you can believe everything that is told to you without using any critical thinking. I have read many of your post and you are not ignorant as someone else that I rather not mention. My only thought is your obvious naivete regarding racism in other parts of this country and normal blacks. Are you aware of the stop and frisk laws in New York? There are brothers there that di nothing wrong but are routinely violated of their civil rights Why? Simply because they are black. In many cases you don't have to be doing anything wrong and could be caught up by "mistaken identity" Do you remember when that white woman said that she was carjacked by some blackmen and every blackman that the police could find that fit her vague bogus description was hemed up? Later they found out that she lied and in another case the woman actually killed her kids and blamedblackmen for it. I really do not want to seem like I'm coming down hard on you, but it reminds me of my oldest son who was roughed up by some racist cop because he was in a bad mood. My son like yourself, complied and gave him no reason for the officer to treat him like he did and it still did not matter
Not to sound egotistical, but I am a Sommelier and I have more wine knowledge than most non-food and wine geeks. My point is that when someone assumes one is ignorant and 'thugish' simply because of his or her ethnicity, one is best obliged to do the opposite of confirming the said bigot's preconceptions and to behave one's self.
Well said, but you just went through exactly what Oprah did, because people like to assume based on what you look like and not what you know.
As for my admitted disdain for American riff raff of African descent, my reason is simple: I come from the same place many of them did. I too was raised non-white in a lower income, mostly black slum colloquially referred to as "the ghetto". I too had a difficult upbringing. But low and behold, I am far from a "down4life N***". How? Simple: I educated myself.
I also can relate except that I had two parents and lived in the "hood". I have also rose above my street peers and at the same time demanded respect from them. Because of that I can go back and talk to the younger generation and give them an option as opppose to just looking down on them and walking away. Because of the relationship that I have it made me an outstanding and respectable caseworker as well. The average white person will never understand that there are some blacks that can balance both worlds and be respected in both because this is something they never had to do. Have you ever noticed that there are brothers and sisters that get their degrees and well paying jobs and leave the "hood" and never turn back and later talk like they were never apart of it just to fit in with their white counterparts? Of course you are familiar with those who are willifully ignorant and want to remain that way and their is no convincing them anything else, these are the ni66rs that the media focuses on. My oldest son grew up in the "hood" but never became part of it and can navigate his way around it if he had to. My youngest son was never raised in the "hood" and I would fear for his life if he had to go through one.
There is no excuse for being a ruffian. Everyone, no matter how impoverished, can afford to behave themselves. Instead of "headin' ta' da' projects ta' hang out wit da' crew and make dat money," perhaps they could do what I did: go to the FREE PUBLIC LIBRARY and read. As opposed to "sellin' dat smack" they may want to try getting a job as a bus boy and working their way up to a decent forty-thousand dollars a year. And even if they can't find a good job which, I more than readily admit, is harder and harder to do in America, they can always afford to behave themselves.
In some cases it is not that easy. Just because you were able to excel does not mean everyone is as fortunate. Have you ever took a young kid to the library and showed him what it has to offer? I realized along time ago it is easy to critize someone for their failures and celebrate their successes but it seems that everyone totally ignores how they got there in the first place. I had freinds that grew up in households were education was not that important and getting food on the table became making "that paper". I went to as far as trying to educated some of the drug dealers how to take their money an go legit. Most laughed but there were two that actually listened to me and one has a degree in business and the other owns his own store. I'm realistic, there is noway that I'm going to convince somebody who is making 2-5k a day to flip burgers or to work for min wage, why should I? I have studied history and many of the most powerful families in this country has some history of doing things that are at least morally wrong to downright illegal but somehow became legitimate businesses.
Indeed, "poverty" does have some trapped..."the ghetto", however, is an attitude that one can easily shed if they so choose.
I will agree with that, but it can only happen if they get help and guidance from someone that they respect
I think we all need to let go and move on to other issues. George Zimmerman was wrong and should never have followed Trayvon Martin. I really don't know if he meant to kill him. However, Zimmerman said "he's running" and should have stayed in his car after reporting him to the police. Period. Nobody in this world would leave his car after telling the dispatcher the "suspect" was dangerous and "on drugs" and possibly armed with "something in his waistband." That is, nobody except someone who had a loaded gun ready to fire. End of story.
Regarding the photos of Zimmerman's face and head..if I saw a man watching me from his car and then he ran after me, he probably would have looked a lot worse if I could find a rock or use my cane. Is it legal to follow someone? Yes, it is. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's not stupid.
Riiight, they also said that he beat up a homeless man which was proven to be wrong. Some buttwipe also said that he was taking the skittles and tea home to get high really? Btw, the video did not show anything. I guess you overlooked the comment made by some azzhole as well. I know alot of black people from coast to coast and I have never heard of any of them belonging to any "fight club" which is something that Hollywood created in a movie. Besides have you ever seen anyone that fought alot? I doubt it because you would have known that they tend to have alot of scars, bruises on their knuckles and joints that don't heal right. I'm reallt suprised that you even believe this BS. This still does not negate that zimmerman actually took self defense classes
Second, the dispatcher never told Zimmerman to stay in the van. He left the van and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to follow Martin and Zimmerman hung up. Here are some more of those annoying little "facts": Blog: More lies from the main stream media about the Zimmerman case
But he was told NOT TO FOLLOW HIM! I guess you will standby that weak arguement "the dispatcher is not a police officer and therefore zimmerman did not have to listen to him" crap as well. My rebuttal to that nosense is why call them in the first place if you are not going to listen to them. Here is another good idea, don't use a blog to back up your point, because you do not know who you are quoting from and the purpose of their blog.
Third, forensic examiners would have found any marks on Martin. They found none, other than scratches on his hand from punching Zimmerman.
Which goes back to my first point that points out how can he be a fight club fighter with no scars or abrasions on his fist? Hell, I'm nowhere near a fight club fighter and I have scars on my knuckles from fighting years ago. I worked in the medical feild for over 30 years and I can tell you that the scratches zimmerman got on the back of his head were not from him getting his head pounded 20-30 time either
Fourth, the wounds on Zimmerman weren't "minor bumps and bruises"
Actually they are. If zimmerman was attacked the way that he said that he was his head would have swollen at the least and at the most he would have suffered a concussion/contussions and would have experinced some dizziness when he went to the police station, hell he felt good enough not to even see a doctor until the next day when told to do so. If you don't believe me go and bump your head against a concret wall lightly and see what type of damage that it would do and compare it to someone banging your head down on it with all of their might. Do you think that it would be the same?
Was there any possibility that Till had attacked anyone and that his attackers acted in self defense? No. Tyrone Martin? Not so much...
Was there a possibility that that both boys were targeted by someone else? More than likely
So thank you for not believing in the one drop rule. I hate it too. Zimmerman is not black and neither am I and neither is Obama.
????? What does this have to do with anything? To me being black is just not just the physical atributes, it is a shared experence that can only be understood by someone who has share those same experences. I have a friend who grew up with me in the "hood" and understands everything that I just explained to you and I consider him to be "blacker" then many people of color and he is white. Just because you look like you are part of something does not mean that you are actually part of it. I can understand if you want to distance yourself from the hoodrats but I could never understand distancing yourself from who you are. The sad thing about it is that in this country, especially if you are a person of color regardless of what you do there are going to be people that will look at you the same way as that thug that robbed the liquor store. We as people of color in this country unlike other groups are looked upon as a group and not as individuals like other group are. If you don't belive me read most of the post on CD, in regards politics it always comes back to Obama and black people. You will never heear anything about bush and what he did relate to just white people.
Going back to zimmerman, I really don't think that he was a racist, but he has proven himself to be quite a good liar, and I think that he planned (with the help from the police and lawyer) a good part in what happened that night.
Than what the hell was the trial about?
It was actually about control. The majority of the people claiming zimmerman's innocence could care less about him. They were more concerned about their gun rights and the laws that could have been changed because of this case. The NRA had a vested interest as well because if you keep people afraid they tend to buy more guns, and people are always afraid of what they don't know. The prison industrial complex, with the change in the SYG laws it would reduce their inmate population. If the police had not botched it up in the first place by trying to hide what they did no one whould not even knew that this took place
Wrong! zimmerman was never "arrested" he was detained, there is a difference
Yes, and so did the OJ trial...now, what he did and got away with was a lot closer to a lynching than anything Zimmerman did. And what did blacks do when he got away with killing a white woman?
<nods head> No one that I know gave a damn about O.J except that he proved to everyone that money can get you out of bad situation. Besides, some friends on the street in L.A knew that the case was nothing but a floor show. Nicole was a junkie and owed some people alot of money and was killed Oj, knew who did it but was more afraid of them than the legal system and took his chances with them. Can you explain how a 20 something black belt manage to get his throat slit by a 50 something year old man with bad knees and only get a drop of blood on him
If you noticed that they did not stopped until they got him on some other BS, and now they have the audacity to get mad at some blacks for doing the same to zimmerman
Is this any differnet than Klan putting out a bounty on MLK?
Burden of proof. Zimmerman was not found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and hence the system works.
Lets just hope that you are never on the opposite side of the "system" that you claim works so well. Then you will find out just how "black" that you really are
If he was a good kid he wouldn't have started the fight and he wouldn't be on suspension at his father's house in the first place.
So you mean to tell me that you were never in a fight in school? Are you also saying that all of those kids who fought in school are all bad?
James Byrd, who was dragged to death, was the victim of a hate crime. A horrible hate crime. The victims if the Sikh temple shooting were hate crime victims. Tyrone Martin? He was the "victim" or a N ***a moment:
I would not go as far as making him a hero nor would I go and make him a criminal either, typical kid that was in the wrong place and time and ran into a over zeal fool
Completely different case and absolutely horrible. Just like when poor Amadou Diallo was murdered by some trigger happy NYPD thugs.
Sh*t happens but like I tell my boys they always should be alert regardless of who they are with and where they are
Why don't you read about the Daniel Adkin's murder, where a black man shot and killed a mentally disabled hispanic armed with nothing but the dog he was walking and didn't even get detained, despite the fact that the black man who killed him, Cordell Jude, could easily have driven off. Read and watch black America's reaction...oh, they aren't having one.
We both can pick and choose injustices done on both sides by that is not the point. I'm just trying to explain to you that everything is not what it seems
We both can pick and choose injustices done on both sides by that is not the point. I'm just trying to explain to you that everything is not what it seems
And I am going to sum it up as such: I have posted FACTS. You have provided OPINIONS. Which have more weight?
If you bothered to look at any of the FACTS I posted links to (like the transcript of the call he made to the police where they NEVER SAID to stay in the car but told him "we don't need you to do that" when he said he was following him, AFTER he had been following him which is different from being told "don't follow him" at the start) You would see. You seem to have a hatred of facts.
As for "who' s black," you have lost all credibility. If Zimmerman isn't black despite being about 1/4 black, than I'm not black despite being less than 1/2 black. Neither of us could go to a KKK rally...does that mean we're both black? If so, than Tyrone was a victim of black on black crime.
As for "shared experience," I have never shared the experience of hating white America for no good reason, thinking the world owes me something because some of my ancestors were slaves, or shared the experience of enjoying pigs feet and Tyler Perry movies. I have faced a little prejudice from being brown (people asking me if I speak English and shouting the "s" word from passing cars) but I guarantee you Zimmerman has too.
And I noticed you never said the Sikh Temple shooting was a modern day lynching. Thank you for showing your true colors. Keep staying in your fantasy world in which only blacks face discrimination and in which blacks are the only minority group on Earth.
Typical black behavior: wanting everyone to bow down before a perceived injustice when the facts say otherwise while at the same time not giving a damn about the real injustice many non-black minorities face. There is a reason why you never see any "black leader" marching for immigrants or women or gays, but the same "black leaders" expect gays, women and immigrants to march for them.
Daniel Adkins was the real modern day Emmit Till: shot while not hurting anyone by a man who could have easily just gone on about his business. A man who wasn't even arrested or detained. And no blacks seem to care because it was "a real brotha' " that did the shooting. Despicable.
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Than what the hell was the trial about?
