Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We can't make something or keep something illegal because there isn't a 100% accurate test for it for the minuscule percent of people that get field tested when they aren't driving erratically. Driving erratically is itself a offense, the reason isn't even the big part. And if they aren't driving erratically they don't need to be tested anyway so it's moot. It's not a reason, it's just not.
I actually do believe some people can overindulge in lot's of things that permanently damage the way they use their brains, and I see example of that everyday. Here even. Or maybe they were born that way, who knows.
You're not reading my posts, or you can't remember what I said, as I'm not singling out marijuana. It should be treated just like every other recreational drug. medical marijuana is a joke. It's like saying medical rum and coke.
I can read and remember just fine, thanks... I was making a statement about current LAWS, not your personal opinions on the matter. It is legal to use drugs like Xanax with a doctor's prescription, right?
On a side note, since you just brought up a painful topic for me (with that memory joke) - did you know recent studies have shown marijuana can fight off Alzheimer's disease? My father was recently diagnosed, so now I know I'm prone to it genetically.
Why do people do anything? Because they want to, and it feels good or benefits THEM in some way. I cannot put you inside our heads or bodies, so to explain why is futile. But as I've said numerous times to you, there are a zillion things people do that I "don't get" either... although unlike you, I really don't care what other people do, unless they are actually posing a threat to somebody else. Why is this such a difficult concept??
I don't get the desire to mess with your brain chemistry. My brain is rather important to me. I'd rather feed it well and exercise it. Why don't you explain to me why you're so attracted to altering your brain chemistry? Is life that bad? When I need a pick me up, I go for a walk, listen to music I like, read a good book or watch a nice movie. I don't alter my brain chemistry...well not by much...exercise does release endorphins. I've been around enough people who smoke pot to know I don't want that effect in my life. They may feel good but they're useless to those around them and sometimes downright hazardous to be around. No I don't get it. Why don't you explain how smoking pot is beneficial if you're not self medicating.
That said, I'm not beyond self medication. I've been known to have a night cap or have a drink at a party if I'm nervous being there but I'm fully aware that I'm medicating the situation and of the effect doing so will have on my body. There's a cost to benefit ratio to using drugs you need to look at. The question to ask is how will this improve my life? Getting a good nights sleep means I'm more productive the next day. That drink at the party may mean I strike up a conversation with someone who helps my career along or meet a new friend I might have been to shy to talk to otherwise. In those situation, I'll use alcohol (the legal drug). I see no reason to use illegal ones. I don't care for the penalties.
If you want to use drugs, alcohol is legal. Use that. We don't need more legal drugs. There's no benefit to society in legalizing them. We have enough trouble with the one that is legal and we have good field sobriety tests in place for that one.
Ask yourself this question. What would be the negative impact if pot disappeared from the world right now. It all just poofed out of existence? What terrible thing happens to society? So all the pot is gone. How will society change?
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-14-2013 at 05:58 AM..
I don't get the desire to mess with your brain chemistry. My brain is rather important to me. I'd rather feed it well and exercise it. Why don't you explain to me why you're so attracted to altering your brain chemistry? Is life that bad? When I need a pick me up, I go for a walk, listen to music I like, read a good book or watch a nice movie. I don't alter my brain chemistry...well not by much...exercise does release endorphins. I've been around enough people who smoke pot to know I don't want that effect in my life. They may feel good but they're useless to those around them and sometimes downright hazardous to be around. No I don't get it. Why don't you explain how smoking pot is beneficial if you're not self medicating.
That said, I'm not beyond self medication. I've been known to have a night cap or have a drink at a party if I'm nervous being there but I'm fully aware that I'm medicating the situation and of the effect doing so will have on my body. There's a cost to benefit ratio to using drugs you need to look at. The question to ask is how will this improve my life? Getting a good nights sleep means I'm more productive the next day. That drink at the party may mean I strike up a conversation with someone who helps my career along or meet a new friend I might have been to shy to talk to otherwise. In those situation, I'll use alcohol (the legal drug). I see no reason to use illegal ones. I don't care for the penalties.
If you want to use drugs, alcohol is legal. Use that. We don't need more legal drugs. There's no benefit to society in legalizing them. We have enough trouble with the one that is legal and we have good field sobriety tests in place for that one.
Ask yourself this question. What would be the negative impact if pot disappeared from the world right now. It all just poofed out of existence? What terrible thing happens to society? So all the pot is gone. How will society change?
LMAO! What terrible advice you give! Telling someone to use a substance (alcohol) that is worse for our bodies and overall health and can cause physical dependence. Heh, and it kills brain cells.
You are a complete hypocrite, and a self-righteous one at that. I'm sure you really do need the alcohol at parties and any social situation, but many of us know that it makes us sick and destroys our bodies-and literally kills brain cells unlike marijuana. You use alcohol, which alters your state of mind much more dramatically than Marijuana and demand reasoning for why other people choose to use the safer substance. Hah, the nerve. And FYI, possession up to 1 OZ is decriminalized where I live.
And "getting high" is one relatively insignificant aspect of this miracle plant when you realize that it produces the strongest fiber in the World, is chock full of omega 3 fatty acids perfect for human diet, can produce stronger and longer lasting paper/lumber without deforestation, produces more biomass than any plant that can be grown in the US and of course had hundreds of medicinal properties including having been proven recently to stop cancer cell growth. My question is, how has society changed since the elite conspired to wage a war on the plant? Do you think society is in a good place right now?
Our nation is in the midst of a legal drug EPIDEMIC, that again backwards thinking people like you continuously ignore. Cannabis is the safer and more effective substance over dangerous and addictive prescription meds, and the solution to disease and addiction.
Last year, prescription drug abuse became the number one cause of accidental death, with more than 30,000 Americans overdosing.
"Drug death rates are currently more than twice what they were during the peak years of crack cocaine mortality in the early 1990s, and four to five times higher than the rates during the year of heroin mortality peak in 1975"
Wake up! You're spreading propaganda against a harmless plant that has been used by every human civilization in history. You may think that the US got it right with prohibition relatively recently ago, but many people vehemently disagree with you.
Weed should not be legalized. One issue is driving or operating machinery under the influence and the definition of being impaired by weed. Right now, it takes a blood test to determine just how high you are at a particular moment and whether or not you are high is speculation. With alcohol, we have breathalizers so we actually can tell who is impaired right on the spot before releasing them. With weed illegal, police can detain anyone who is in possession or drug dogs react on because of the smell. They can get them off the street. Legalizing drugs creates major headaches for the ability of the police to get people off the street who are in no condition to drive. Whether or not they are really impaired is subjective.
The war on drugs is an absolute failure! Furthermore, the intoxicating effects of cannabis wear off in 1 to 3 hours. If I wanted to, I could smoke a joint at 9 in the morning (I don't BTW) and by 4 in the afternoon go run errands and completely sober.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom
I've seen just as much stupidity from people who weren't under the influence of any sort of drug as I have out of people who use marijuana. And I've seen far more stupidity out of people who were drunk than out of people who were high. Especially stupidity involving violence or dangerous activities.
Actually, marijuana can make people more productive. It has a medical use for those with ADD or ADHD and helps them to concentrate more fully on the task at hand. Many recreational users also find that they are able to concentrate on mundane tasks more effectively when they are high.
Don't bother the prohibitionists with facts. They're too wrapped up in forcing the propaganda that they've been spoon fed all of their lives and trying to force it down everyone elses throats! I know I've mentioned this to you before. I worked as a DJ in a lot of bars and night clubs in the Cleveland area, and I've seen countless times the stupidity and absolute melee that excessive consumption of alcohol can cause. I mean, I do drink beer, but some people absolutely cannot handle their alcohol. Nevertheless, I still won't be the one calling for banning it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The problem is we're deciding what is good for society. Laws are for the benefit of society not the individual. It is you who needs to convince me that legalizing weed is beneficial for society.
I'm a good and safe driver. It would be to my benefit to drive 100 MPH on the expressway but I don't get my way because the law isn't about me. It's about what's good for society and it's not good for society to let everyone drive 100 MPH so I can't either.
I too am a safe driver. Haven't had a speeding ticket since 1992. As an adult, I also don't need the collective deciding what is or is not good for me as an individual. There is a thing called common sense, and a great many of us use it despite your warped stereotype that all pot smokers are irresponsible, lazy and wreckless. Furthermore, you've been shown time and again on this thread and other threads as to how cannabis can be beneficial to society in comparison to the crap that Big Pharma peddles, as well as the industrial uses, but you choose not to listen. Oh well! You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. But realize this! When it comes to legalization, you and others who oppose it are becoming a minority. Perhaps you should then move to Singapore, where possession could result in one getting the death penalty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom
So having a harsher sentence for marijuana possession than we do for domestic abuse, battery, or aggravated assault is good for society? Violence is good, drugs are bad. Gotcha.
Again with logic Jim. Remember authoritarian types don't like the individual to use their God given free will, and ability to look at everything on a case by case basis, because they don't want to lose their control over others!
Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut
And what about alcohol? Why don't you want to outlaw alcohol?
It wouldn't suprise me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth56
ivory... there are people driving the streets every day on pharmaceuticals prescribed by their doctors. Many of these drugs say do not drive if impaired. But people do. Do you really think this is not happening? No, they shouldn't be driving. it is no different with cannabis. And if the people on pharmaceuticals get into an accident and have their blood drawn and it shows they were impaired, there are consequences. This should be the same for cannabis users.
Also, even though there is a plethora of new evidence coming from Israel regarding no high cannabis, there is much value for patients in the cannabis that still gets you high. But I guess you would have to be a cancer patient using cannabis to know that. There are two basic components in cannabis, CBD and THC, that help patients. Both offer relief. And different strains of cannabis help with different problems.
I am a cancer patient. I could fill my body full of the pharmaceuticals that doctors want to offer for my pain and other problems, but they cause horrible side effects and can interact terribly with prescribed pharmaceuticals. I suffer no problems with cannabis.
Seriously? What are the worst side effects of cannabis? Hmmm, the munchies, laughter, a buzz (which is a bonus).... Yeah real bad, right? Given that you have cancer, having the munchies is a good thing, considering that means you're inclined to eat, and provide your body much needed nutrients which can help fight the disease. Good luck with your treatment, and God bless. Don't let these prohibitionist types prohibit you from seeking relief for your disease, because they cling to the fact that Big Pharma knows best!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
I already spelled it out for you, but I'll list the "benefits to society" if we legalized again:
- Save money on jailing non-violent users
- Keep people who WERE contributing to society in their jobs, homes, etc, instead of taxpayer-funded jails
- Benefit those who genuinely need it for medical purposes
- Save the lawmakers' time from busting and harassing users who pose no threat to society in general; I know many cops personally, and every one I've discussed this issue with says they'd like to see it legalized (and see FAR more issues caused by drunks than stoners).
As for your continued argument regarding driving under the influence, I also already addressed that... the police are trained to assess a driver's impairment, through a series of simple field tests. Some of these aren't even subjective, like testing how your pupils react to a flashlight. I have been through these tests myself, and passed with flying colors - so the officers determined I was fine to drive, and didn't bother taking it any further. This is pretty much how they treat alcohol too, and blood tests aren't necessary until/unless the driver fails their field tests. Simple.
And if you want to take away driving privileges from anyone using medical marijuana, it would only be fair to take those privileges from anyone on ANY prescription drug (that causes any level of impairment). Or perhaps, just perhaps, we can treat it the same way... put a warning on the label (as they already do here in CA), and prosecute only those who violate the law and are caught doing so. Makes sense to me, but I guess not everyone is capable of this logical train of thought.
All good point Gizmo. And too add, if one can pass a field test, then IMO they are good to go. The bottom line is we need to end this silly and wasteful war on a GOD given plant once and for all, and allow the cops to actually focus on catching violent criminals!
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfish1
That's the one of dullest posts I've ever read. Are we in grade school? Let's just base our laws on the honor system. We won't test for intoxicated drivers, we'll just assume they're cool to drive..........LMAO.
People that smoke weed always drive while they're high, go to work high, and do a tone of other things they shouldn't be doing while they're high. I would know because I used to be one of them. I don't believe any of these potheads on this forum that say they don't do these things high, as I've met very few potheads in my life that didn't. They seriously need to put some research in to finding an accurate and effective way to find out how stoned someone is on the spot. It would end this debate and legalize weed practically overnight. On the other hand it would be game over for peter potsmoker. He would be forced to to responsibly use the drug or face te same consequences drinkers do.
Really? That's news to me. I'm at work right now, and I'm not high! Drinking, or smoking is ME TIME!!! That means when all of my obligations for the day are done. Stop painting others with a broad brush, just because you didn't use the stuff in a responsible way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
You don't have to believe me, but I'm not a loser who can't handle refraining while driving or working... I have NEVER come to work high in my adult life EVER, and will put my own mother's life on that as truth. I'm a professional who works for the government, and deals with the public on a regular basis, so I'd be caught VERY quickly if I showed up under the influence of anything. I'm actually at work now (on a break), and haven't smoked anything but cigarettes today. Sorry if you cannot believe other people are responsible, just because you were out of control, but it's the god's honest truth. Believe me or not, it doesn't change the fact that I'm at work SOBER right this very second.
Still not an argument against legalization, though, so try again and get back to us. Many legal things cannot be tested on the spot, and as I said earlier (twice), there are a number of field tests law enforcement officers know how to conduct & analyze.
Any cop that is worth anything should not need a device to prove that someone is intoxicated! Christ, I'm not a cop, and I can tell!!! It ain't rocket science!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Nope. SPEND money to test possible high drivers to make sure they're not high.
I don't believe there will be any cost saving WRT jobs. Fire the druggie and hire someone who doesn't use. No extra cost and no savings. I'm not worried about drug users keeping their jobs. They aren't.
Compounds that are medicinal can be isolated and controlled by the FDA.
No cost save for the courts either because of the difficulty in determining just how high someone is and whether or not they're too high to drive, teach your children in school, whatever.
As I said, we have an issue with prescription drugs that cause patients to get high and driving that needs to be addressed. I know I don't want to be on the road with users medical or otherwise. They endanger my life.
I see no point in legalization of recreational drugs. If they have medicinal purposes, that falls under the jurisdiction of the FDA.
What people do when they're on their own time is not the business of the employer. Now, on the other hand if one shows up to work under the influence then there absolutely should be consequences. And BTW you already are on the road with people driving under the influence, texting, or just all around driving terribly. If you're the safe driver that you proclaim that you are, then you should be very good at being a defensive driver. I know, because I am. The only 2 accidents I've been in were fender benders, and not my fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie
We've had over the counter drugs that can cause sleepiness available on the market for decades. Have you ever tried Drixoral for nasal congestion before? Society seems to be handling such drugs responsibly, since I know of no crusades to ban or restrict them. So I think most people can also handle legalized marijuana responsibly. I've seen someone turn down a joint before, because he needed to leave to drive somewhere soon.
Those who oppose legalizing marijuana might as will shake hands with and take the side of street pushers and drug cartel lords, because they sure as hell don't want to see marijuana legalized, either. Narcs will tell you they only seize about 10% of the underground drug market. That's a lot of drugs still left under the chaotic control of criminals.
Indeed you are correct. Continuing its prohibition only continues to line the pockets of the cartels. Why give them that kind of power? Especially since it was prohibition of alcohol that gave the likes of Al Capone power!
As for someone turning down toking because they had to drive. I'm one of them!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980
Yep. I just used myself as an example above, and could list hundreds more. To name a few, here are the professions of some people I know who smoke marijuana:
And so forth. I'd like to see Ivory justify taking these people out of the workforce, and putting them on the taxpayers' dole. Also, how are they a detriment to society now?
Not to mention the many influential people throughout the history of the world that used it. I guess they were all worthless stoners as well, and not worthy of a job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan
in ten years it will be legal!!! stop freaking out weed haters...
Yep. The "Reefer Madness" crowd is fading away into irrelevance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by northnut
I used to drive while high, a looooooong time ago. And when I did, it was very far & few between. I haven't driven high in I don't know how long. Yet, I smoke pot often. How could this possibly be? I have never gone to work high, EVER, in my life. While the thought seems nice, I assume others would immediately know, I would screw up & there goes my job & paycheck. So no, I've never gone to work high. Yet, I smoke pot often. How could this possibly be? Any other "facts" you'd like to shed, oh wise stoner you?
B-b-b-but that can't be possible! Stoners are nothing but lazy, low lifes druggies! Seriously though, if you're dumb enough to go to work under the influence then you probably deserve to lose your job! My company is pretty laid back like that, in that they don't impose into our private lives. We have a production department as well, and we've not had an instance where someone showed up under the influence. We're a small company, so that would have been around the office in no time!
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess
The BAC field tests are flawed and can beat in court. Radar guns can be beat too. I'm not as familiar with the THC field tests but many of those are flawed. The Duquenois-Levine is the most popular and it has its warts. It's tougher to beat a pot charge once you reach court mainly because the govt has such a hard-on for weed users. That varies though...of course.
DING DING DING!!!! And here it is for those who are beating the drum about sobriety tests! An individual who works in LE telling you that tests are flawed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I don't get the desire to mess with your brain chemistry. My brain is rather important to me. I'd rather feed it well and exercise it. Why don't you explain to me why you're so attracted to altering your brain chemistry? Is life that bad? When I need a pick me up, I go for a walk, listen to music I like, read a good book or watch a nice movie. I don't alter my brain chemistry...well not by much...exercise does release endorphins. I've been around enough people who smoke pot to know I don't want that effect in my life. They may feel good but they're useless to those around them and sometimes downright hazardous to be around. No I don't get it. Why don't you explain how smoking pot is beneficial if you're not self medicating.
That said, I'm not beyond self medication. I've been known to have a night cap or have a drink at a party if I'm nervous being there but I'm fully aware that I'm medicating the situation and of the effect doing so will have on my body. There's a cost to benefit ratio to using drugs you need to look at. The question to ask is how will this improve my life? Getting a good nights sleep means I'm more productive the next day. That drink at the party may mean I strike up a conversation with someone who helps my career along or meet a new friend I might have been to shy to talk to otherwise. In those situation, I'll use alcohol (the legal drug). I see no reason to use illegal ones. I don't care for the penalties.
If you want to use drugs, alcohol is legal. Use that. We don't need more legal drugs. There's no benefit to society in legalizing them. We have enough trouble with the one that is legal and we have good field sobriety tests in place for that one.
Ask yourself this question. What would be the negative impact if pot disappeared from the world right now. It all just poofed out of existence? What terrible thing happens to society? So all the pot is gone. How will society change?
If you are self medicating as well, then you will have to excuse me if I call you a hypocrite! Alcohol is also a mind altering substance, if not worse than cannabis! It's bad for the liver, the brain, the kidneys, the stomach, and the instestines. It has potential to cause physical addiction, and there is a potential that with overconsumption comes overdose, and possible death. Not so with cannabis, as there is not one report of overdose on cannabis. You cannot make the same case for ANY other substance...legal....illegal... OTC... prescribed, or whatever! And again, it's not up to you to decide what people need, or what they can or cannot consume. Just because there are few knuckleheads who screw it up for everyone else by acting irresponsibly, does not mean that all of us are that way. And those that do continue to act irresponsibly... well that is just nature taking its course, and thinning the herd.
People that smoke weed always drive while they're high, go to work high, and do a tone of other things they shouldn't be doing while they're high. I would know because I used to be one of them. I don't believe any of these potheads on this forum that say they don't do these things high, as I've met very few potheads in my life that didn't. They seriously need to put some research in to finding an accurate and effective way to find out how stoned someone is on the spot. It would end this debate and legalize weed practically overnight. On the other hand it would be game over for peter potsmoker. He would be forced to to responsibly use the drug or face te same consequences drinkers do.
All the pot addicts I know drive stoned routinely. I don't think they see anything wrong with it, because for them feeling stoned is same as feeling normal.
I'm not singling out marijuana. It should be treated just like every other recreational drug. medical marijuana is a joke. It's like saying medical rum and coke.
Then surely you were too shut minded to watch Dr. Gupta's special on marijuana on CNN and would be hardhearted enough to deny a epileptic little child medical marijuana to get over nearly all seizures.
If you want to use drugs, alcohol is legal. Use that. We don't need more legal drugs. There's no benefit to society in legalizing them.
You're so very, very wrong. Marijuana expert Dr. Lester Grinspoon has switched from alcohol to smoking marijuana to wind down at night. Since marijuana is less harmful and less addictive than alcohol, I see no harm in everyone having the legal freedom to choose to do what Dr. Grinspoon did.
You're not reading my posts, or you can't remember what I said, as I'm not singling out marijuana. It should be treated just like every other recreational drug. medical marijuana is a joke. It's like saying medical rum and coke.
Who's ready for a shot of medical Jagermeister? Sure, alcohol has all kinds of medical benefits, but who do we think we're kidding calling drugs meds?
Yep. The "Reefer Madness" crowd is fading away into irrelevance.
But not so in Oklahoma. Far from it. A young dad took his child to a school to get enrolled. But Dad smelled like marijuana and got arrested for possession of it, just based on the smell. As a result, if convicted, he may be imprisoned for not less than four years and not more than 20 years and/or fined up to $10,000. He was jailed with $10,000 bail. Hopefully, state child protective services won't be out for grabbing his child. Wouldn't in most sane states, the Dad would have simply gotten a ticket, if anything at all?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They're too wrapped up in forcing the propaganda that they've been spoon fed all of their lives and trying to force it down everyone elses throats! I know I've mentioned this to you before. I worked as a DJ in a lot of bars and night clubs in the Cleveland area, and I've seen countless times the stupidity and absolute melee that excessive consumption of alcohol can cause. I mean, I do drink beer, but some people absolutely cannot handle their alcohol. Nevertheless, I still won't be the one calling for banning it.
Laws are for the benefit of society not the individual. It is you who needs to convince me that legalizing weed is beneficial for society. 
But realize this! When it comes to legalization, you and others who oppose it are becoming a minority. Perhaps you should then move to Singapore, where possession could result in one getting the death penalty.
Remember authoritarian types don't like the individual to use their God given free will, and ability to look at everything on a case by case basis, because they don't want to lose their control over others!
).... Yeah real bad, right? Given that you have cancer, having the munchies is a good thing, considering that means you're inclined to eat, and provide your body much needed nutrients which can help fight the disease. Good luck with your treatment, and God bless.
Don't let these prohibitionist types prohibit you from seeking relief for your disease, because they cling to the fact that Big Pharma knows best!
I'm at work right now, and I'm not high! Drinking, or smoking is ME TIME!!! That means when all of my obligations for the day are done. Stop painting others with a broad brush, just because you didn't use the stuff in a responsible way.
