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Why do you feel the need to keep the race baiting issue open? If anything Conservatives are ambivalent because many of the issues facing minority communities are addressed with band-aid solution making them more dependent on a gov't instead of treating them as equals. So who's oppressing who?
I'm not conservative - nor am I liberal - but from reading the forums for the past year - I see a lot of name calling - primarily from libs - race baiting - prim by libs - refusal or ignorance in answering questions posed to them - libs. You think they are supportive of civil rights but most have no clue as to why they support it.
Is there still racism - yes - but the racism I think is more one sided - blacks against whites because they are told how much the Rep or Conservatives are trying to keep them down. Everyone no matter what your race or skin color has every opportunity available to them - if they choose not to use it - you can't blame Conservatives.
Thank you for putting this so well
I am so sick of race hacks
This is something I've noticed and wondered about for a while now. People who tend to be the most supportive of civil rights--regardless of the group--tend to be those on the left. While conservatives tend to be, at best, ambivalent about things like voting rights or issues facing minority communities. Many naively seem to think that there are no racial problems anymore in the United States, and that things like Civil Rights laws are no longer necessary--something which baffles me.
Any thoughts?
For me much of what passes for civil rights today comes across as incessant whining that doesn't take into account the role the actions of individuals play into disparities. It seems that on the Left merely pointing out a disparity between the races in any category is all that is needed to prove racism.
Please produce proof. Specifically, documented numbers of illegal voting. Not one individual case, which cons love to quote, but overall numbers compared to the number of ballots cast.
Thanks.
Isn't this is a catch 22? If a person's identity is not being checked at the voting booth, then how can anyone document the identity of the person whose is voting as someone else?
This is something I've noticed and wondered about for a while now. People who tend to be the most supportive of civil rights--regardless of the group--tend to be those on the left. While conservatives tend to be, at best, ambivalent about things like voting rights or issues facing minority communities. Many naively seem to think that there are no racial problems anymore in the United States, and that things like Civil Rights laws are no longer necessary--something which baffles me.
Any thoughts?
Why are liberals so ambivalent to white issues like Appalachian poverty? /thread
For me much of what passes for civil rights today comes across as incessant whining that doesn't take into account the role the actions of individuals play into disparities. It seems that on the Left merely pointing out a disparity between the races in any category is all that is needed to prove racism.
That was essentially what i was saying. If the left assumes whites are racists and bigots, then that is all they need to create discriminatory laws.
What I relayed to you was actual reality, based on having lived through it. Denying reality doesn't help add to your credibility.
"Reality"?
1. So when you apply for a job, do you not understand that you are given preferential treatment as a minority?
2. So when you apply to schools, do you not understand that you are admitted over more qualified students due to your skin color?
3. Do you not understand that you are given scholarships over more qualified students due to your skin color?
4. Do you not realize that firing a minority, even for poor job performance, is more difficult, simply due to skin color?
How about stop making excuses and actually taking personal responsibility? Oh............. sorry........I forgot- this is 2013, Obama is in power, and the US is the most "racist" nation on the planet.
We're not ambivalent towards minorities, we simply don't see them as incapable people due to their race. Liberals pander to minorities, forever treating them as inferiors who can't make it on their own, and then have the nerve to say with a straight face that Conservatives are racist.
Liberals love to say how much they desire equality, but separate everyone into distinct groups based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. and create special rules about how each group is to be treated. How can we hope to achieve color-blindness and equality when left-wingers incessantly label everyone and filter them into groups?
Yes: Reality. That which I actually lived through and did. The actual reporting of what happened. What part of this is not clear?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
1. So when you apply for a job, do you not understand that you are given preferential treatment as a minority?
What minority are you referring to?
Apparently you didn't actually read or understand what you are replying to, and instead thought it would make sense to post random, vacuous replies. Go back. Read the messages you're replying to, understand them, and then consider posting a reply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009
How about stop making excuses and actually taking personal responsibility?
Given that you haven't taken personal responsibility for making your comments relevant to the discussion you've chosen to engage in, it's really quite strange that you'd make this statement. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
In general, I do believe that many conservatives and especially Republicans feel that race has no bearing on anything anymore in our society. A lot of them view legitimate claims of discrimination as "whining" due to specific talking points they hear from conservative media outlets. I am neither a conservative nor a liberal, and I am black. And FWIW, I do have an equal view of both extreme liberals and conservatives. And like many conservatives have mentioned in this thread, a lot of liberals believe that minorities and especially black people are inferior beings in a way as they do not feel that we can solve any problems without their assistance. Conservatives think that liberals have kept us in poverty even though poverty levels among black people in particular have been cut in half, not because of welfare either, I will give them that, but because the discriminatory laws put into practice in order to relegate black people as second class citizens was challenged (by both white and black people amongst others) and these laws were repealed allowing black people more freedom and opportunity in our day to day lives.
Now onto these comments:
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731
Why do you feel the need to keep the race baiting issue open? If anything Conservatives are ambivalent because many of the issues facing minority communities are addressed with band-aid solution making them more dependent on a gov't instead of treating them as equals. So who's oppressing who?
What "Band-Aid" solutions are you speaking of and how do these solutions make us black people more oppressed? This seems like a conservative media talking spot that you are believing instead of thinking about this from an individual perspective.
Is there still racism - yes - but the racism I think is more one sided - blacks against whites because they are told how much the Rep or Conservatives are trying to keep them down. Everyone no matter what your race or skin color has every opportunity available to them - if they choose not to use it - you can't blame Conservatives.
I find it interesting how many people like to claim that racism is now a "black against whites" phenomenon as if black people have any sort of power to influence the daily lives of white Americans in this country. This is also a conservative media talking point that is done to death. I actually do listen to conservative media, I like to get all sides of various issues and contrary to what you are stating, black people don't really pay all that much attention to conservative whites in our own media outlets. Black people also do not blame everything on white conservatives either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXStrat
There is evidence of voter fraud, an elections worker in the Cincinnati, OH are was just convicted of 6 counts of voter fraud for both voting in person, and voting via absentee ballot, and voting in names of others. There are other cases out there in the legal process now, and in all cases, the accused parties are Democrats. You can continue to stick your head in the sand and say voter fraud doesn't exist, but people will not stand for false allegations of voter suppression by requiring a photo ID that is provided for free by the state. Here is the one thing no Dem has been able to answer yet, how is requiring a photo ID, that is already required for many everyday transactions going to limit the rights or abilities of a single person legally entitled to vote?
The situation you describe happened via a "poll worker" not from an actual voter. Poll workers are working polls and can cause voter fraud whether or not they have an ID same as with absentee ballots. You also seem to listen too much to media influence in that you are riled up about "voter fraud." Sorry to burst your bubble but regular Americans going to vote at the polls in person are not the cause of practically any fraud in this country.
And I'm sure, if you have been on CD POC forum a while, you know by now that the primary people who will be affected by voter ID are elderly people or students who don't have IDs. Some of the states who have passed these laws do not accept expired IDs or student IDs and many seniors do not have IDs and have no need for them. I work in senior housing and many of them just don't have a day to day need for an ID, neither do students. Tax payers are also on the hook for these IDs as well and if you are conservative, you should consider going back to the roots of fiscal conservatism and be against voter IDs since you and your state will be forced to provide them for free to people who want them and in my state we have to pay for transportation for people to go and get these IDs so they are a waste of money. Contrary to what the media is telling you, voter fraud is statistically irrelevant. Do some digging on sites that have no political slant and you will see it is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2
In order to say why conservatives are ambivalent, you must first accept that conservatives are ambivalent. They aren't.
Not pandering to someone doesn't make you ambivalent towards them. The Republican party does just as much pandering as the Democrats.
Nobody says that civil rights laws are no longer necessary. It's quite the opposite. Civil Rights laws are good and proper and they are in place just as they should be. Many libertarian leaning conservatives do not think that Civil Rights laws are necessary. They are there to guarantee equal opportunity. And that's a good thing. What we conservatives don't want is to guarantee equal outcome by means of wealth redistribution. Nobody wants to repeal discrimination legislation. We just don't view black people as eternal victims in constant need of hand-holding. We don't take every little thing and use it to ring the Jim Crow alarm bells. It's not 1960 anymore.
Racism doesn't force black kids to commit crime. But racism does run rampant in our criminal justice system and treats black, Hispanic, and native Americans differently than it treats a white criminal IMO our criminal justice system is the only true inherently racist institution in our country. Racism doesn't force 73% of black births to be illegitimate. But racism causes you to believe that 73% of black children are being raised by single mothers, when that is not the case. Racism doesn't force black dropout rates to be the highest and test scores to be the lowest of any racial group. Racism does actually cause higher drop out rates and low test scores since black children are still not provided many of the opportunities educationally as other ethnicities. I do feel that there is a family component in education, but even so, just like with the criminal justice system, black children are treated differently than other children in our public schools. And you might find it surprising that I do feel that many of those differences are caused by liberally minded teachers who feel sorry for a child's living environment if they are poor (and when those liberal teachers believe that all black children are downtrodden in need of saving) so they will not challenge a black child as much as another child who they don't feel sorry for. Those are problems within the black community and are not results of the white man's oppression. And proof of this is the fact that these problems have gotten worse since the civil rights era. None of those problems are worse since the 1960s except the OOW birthrate and that is worse for all demographics. Crime rates are down in black areas - even Chicago, educational achievement is up as well. When black people were facing forced segregation, curfews, lynchings, and all the rest their unemployment, illegitimacy, and crime rates were better than they are now. Not true. So blaming those problems on the much lighter racism they face today is pure pandering instead of addressing the real problem. Which is the same as that faced by the lily white underclass in the UK - decades of a welfare state instilling a sense of dependency on government and breakdown in the family.
Responses in bold.
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