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Old 01-22-2014, 10:05 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
Your chart isn't useful in this argument because inflation at macro level is a complex issue. Many factors can drive the inflation.

At the micro level, companies will try to protect their profit margin one way or another. I already told you many times, they will do some or all of the following:
1. Increase price
2. Lay off
3. Use more automation
4. Move business elsewhere

Option 1 will be reflected as inflation and Option 2-4 will be unemployment.

Price/wage spiral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
His chart actually argues against his position because look at the economic decline through 2008-2009. if Urbans position had any validity to it, we would be cutting employees salaries during this period of time, while at the very same time, we actully needed to be increasing spending in order to stimulate the economy..

Thats the very reason he supported the stimulus bill..

I wonder if he thinks we should have cut salaries..

Last edited by pghquest; 01-22-2014 at 10:15 AM..

 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:06 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I got news for ya. Those at the top are already laughing. And you want to bow to their bidding. The top has already taken our jobs and lowered the median income of our country and you want to keep feeding that monster.
I agree, the top is already laughing, and your method to get "even", is to encourage them to take their jobs elsewhere, so they can earn more money..

You want higher median incomes, YOU NEED MORE JOBS...

Employment is a supply/demand commodity, more jobs = higher wages, less jobs = lower wages...

Its not difficult.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
If this is the case then the only solution is to lower wages to 3rd world rates in order to stay competitive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
You don't know squat about Economics.

That is not the only solution. There are many solutions, but you are too soft and weak and spoiled to implement some of them; you lack the political will to implement others; and you let your ideology prevent you from implementing still other solutions, because your ideology is more important than success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Greed is the primary reason for Offshoring...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
You don't know anything about Economics.

And even that wouldn't be so bad, except you don't know anything about Foreign Policy, either.

You can prove to us that you know something about Economics, by explaining why US corporations have no choice and must move jobs to other States.

Foreign Policy is not taught in high schools, so I'll explain so people can understand.

Classical Liberalism
: two basic tenets.....Actors --- States, heads-of-State and such --- are basically good, and want to do the right thing and make the right choices. Collective Security helps Actors make the right choices and be good.

There were over a dozen Collective Security Organizations, you're probably familiar with the Warsaw Pact and NATO, but there was SEATO, ANZUS, OAS, OSAS, OCS etc etc etc.

As those organizations become defunct or useless by the 1980s, Classical Liberals, like George H. Bush, start asking, what will replace Collective Security?

Answer: Multi-National Corporations and Non-Governmental Organizations.

And those people like George H are called Neo-Liberal Institutionalists.

And so was Clinton, with his Washington Principles and this gem...

Chapter 4a, Article I—“The economy of Kosovo, shall function in accordance with free market
principles.”


That's from Clinton's Rambouillet Agreement.

I will tell you what Hillary told the Media not to tell you, and that is Kosovo consists of two provinces, Metohija in the West -- a mountainous province inhabited by Serbs, and Kosovo the East, a plateau inhabited by Serbs and Kosovars.

Underneath that plateau, it's a freaking Mineral & Ore Fest, sort of like Lazapolooza only different.

It has one of the largest known molybdenum deposits on Earth, which is good, since most of the precious little molybdenum that you have is in the oceans and impossible to get.

And an oil/natural gas pipeline. You all ought to know by now, where there's going to be a pipeline, you're going to be at war, like Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, South Sudan, Somalia, the DRC.

Anyway, instead of Collective Security, you send in the Multi-National Corporations.

The NGOs --Non-Governmental Organizations -- yes that would be the UN, WTO, Doctors Without Borders, Amnesty International and such, but that's not what I talking about.

When I say NGO, I'm talking about the ones like George W funded...in Egypt for example. Ostensibly to empower Egyptian women to seek elected offices in government, it was really a front to channel money to terror groups, funnel weapons, and spy.

These NGOs are how Clinton got you into the 5 Central Asian States, over-threw their governments and set up puppet-dictatorships so that UNOCAL, Chevron, Amoco and British Petroleum could take-over 75% of the oil, natural gas and mineral resources.


Free Trade Agreements.....another clever way of getting US Multi-National Corporations into States, with the NGOs following on.

What's the difference between George H, Clinton, George W and Obama?

No difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
As soon as companies realized they could get the same product for 1/5 of the cost it was a wrap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
You don't know squat about Economics.

Explain why companies must off-shore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Minimum wage jobs arent offshored...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
At the last hike in minimum wage, call-center jobs were off-shored. So were manufacturing jobs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
.. this isnt about gaining on the big boats, its about keeping their heads above water.
Then tell them to get out of the Hedonistic Pool and into the Wading Pool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
It isn't sustainable... we have seen the middle class disappear and the wealth gap will continue to spread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
Assets increase in value, thereby increasing wealth...you didn't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Between 2009 and 2012, the incomes of the top 1 percent of earners grew by more than 31 percent, according to Emmanuel Saez, an economist at the University of California at Berkeley, while the incomes of the bottom 99 percent expanded by just 0.4 percent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
You don't know the difference between Earned Income and Unearned Income.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Its damn near an old model because China is developing and pretty soon those companies will have to find a new 4th world to pay slave wages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
The fact that you referred to "slave wages" is proof you don't understand Economics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
I'm from Pittsburgh... we lived well and everyone worked in Steel. Once America decided to get Steel from China it killed our region. That started in the late 70's. Offshoring isnt new and its idiotic to keep bringing it up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
Please don't tell me about what I do and don't know.
Uh, that was Japan, not China. You don't know what you're talking about.

You have a lot to learn...


Mircea
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
No, I don't not think the stock market crash caused the Great Depression, it was already in process before it happened, it just happened to be the final straw that made it to the papers to symbolize the crash.
The stock market crash was a non-event that played no role.

The final straws...plural...were actually the tax hike and the tariffs enacted in 1930.

Also, those industrial jobs that we have lost were not minimum wage jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Wanting to increase minimum wage isn't some "heart felt" thing, that is just a lie your right wing media feeds you.
Yes, it is a "heart-felt" thing....and will remain so, until you can justify it under the Laws of Economics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
There are child workers, unsafe working conditions, and people being paid barely anything? I am really thinking you don't know much about American history.
Surrender Flag.....who didn't see that coming?

Whenever Left-Wingers start losing an argument, they start dredging up the irrelevant past.


Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Inflation is always rising regardless if you raise minimum wage or not, but not raising it only punishes those ate the bottom because their income value is worth less and less. Tell how that makes sense?
What?

It makes sense if you understand the Laws of Economics....so obviously you don't understand Economics.

When you say "inflation" which Inflation are you talking about? Let's assume for a moment that you are talking about Demand-Pull Inflation.

When you have Demand-Pull Inflation, you have these choices:

1] Stop consuming to reduce Demand; or
2] Increase Supply to offset Demand;
3] a combination of both.

And I just gave you a big freaking hint about the whole purpose of Economics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Every time? Looks like the cost of living has gone up even though federal minimum wage has been stagnant for 5 years now. So much for your statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Minimum wage will eventually get up to that price as it continues to lag behind the rate of inflation. The chances of seeing any $15/hr federal minimum wage any time soon is nonexistent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
This only works if you pretend inflation doesn't exist.
So?

The burden of proof is on you to show which Law, Theory or Corollary of Economics says that a minimum wage must exist, and that the minimum wage must keep pace with, uh, "inflation."

If you fail or refuse to do that, then you have just proven....

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Wanting to increase minimum wage isn't some "heart felt" thing, that is just a lie your right wing media feeds you.

...that it is some "heat felt" thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Seeing you are still baffled by bread, this should make it easier for you to understand.

It cost about N80.00 ($0.50) to produce standard sliced bread in Nigeria.
Nigeria?

Are you for real?

That fails completely. That isn't even remotely comparable to anything in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
The rate of productivity in this country has increased, yet the minimum wage hasn't. You can argue against minimum wage all you want, but that is a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Productivity has been increasing, but minimum wage has not been keeping up with the increase in productivity, so what is your excuse now?
The rate of productivity in the US has not increased.

The proper and correct method of calculating productivity is Unit Volume per Hour of Labor.

State the Law, Theory or Corollary of Economics says that a minimum wage must exist, and that the minimum wage must keep pace with "productivity."

If you fail or refuse to do that, then you have just proven....

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Wanting to increase minimum wage isn't some "heart felt" thing, that is just a lie your right wing media feeds you.

...that it is some "heat felt" thing.


Cornering....

Mircea
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,152,432 times
Reputation: 21738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Increase minimum wage=more spending=more product and service demand=more jobs to provide services and products.
No, that is not how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Reality is either increase their minimum wage so that they can support themselves or pay more taxes to provide them government assistance. Take your pick.
False Dilemma.

You can decrease or eliminate government assistance.

If the "federal" minimum wage would be increased, what guarantees do we have that the "federal" government....in particular the Left-Wing....will not lower the bar, thereby ensuring the same number of people still continue to receive welfare?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
What minimum wage jobs can be "offshored?" Hotel housekeepers? Nursing home assistants? Fast food workers? Cashiers and retail workers?
Call-center jobs....your views are very narrow-minded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Yep. Raise in MV well deserved.

Worker productivity up at best pace in 4 years
Worker productivity has not increased....it's measured incorrectly, but I guess you didn't know that.

Economically...

Mircea
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,800,800 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I agree, the top is already laughing, and your method to get "even", is to encourage them to take their jobs elsewhere, so they can earn more money..

You want higher median incomes, YOU NEED MORE JOBS...

Employment is a supply/demand commodity, more jobs = higher wages, less jobs = lower wages...

Its not difficult.
We have a demand for services and products in this country. We also have the ingenuity to build grassroots businesses that don't enslave us and siphon off our resources and wealth.

I say let those damn corporations and companies go where ever the hell they want. I am tired of them trying to hold us hostage. Lets get our freedom, pride, and incentive back.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,800,800 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
No, that is not how it works.



False Dilemma.

You can decrease or eliminate government assistance.

If the "federal" minimum wage would be increased, what guarantees do we have that the "federal" government....in particular the Left-Wing....will not lower the bar, thereby ensuring the same number of people still continue to receive welfare?



Call-center jobs....your views are very narrow-minded.



Worker productivity has not increased....it's measured incorrectly, but I guess you didn't know that.

Economically...

Mircea
You can have those call centered jobs that pay minimum wage. Have at them.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:36 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
We have a demand for services and products in this country. We also have the ingenuity to build grassroots businesses that don't enslave us and siphon off our resources and wealth.
We have a demand for products in this country that can be met by those overseas..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I say let those damn corporations and companies go where ever the hell they want. I am tired of them trying to hold us hostage. Lets get our freedom, pride, and incentive back.
Then stop whining about those who do exactly what you want them to do and increase their profits while doing so.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:37 AM
 
26,694 posts, read 14,555,493 times
Reputation: 8094
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
We have a demand for services and products in this country. We also have the ingenuity to build grassroots businesses that don't enslave us and siphon off our resources and wealth.

I say let those damn corporations and companies go where ever the hell they want. I am tired of them trying to hold us hostage. Lets get our freedom, pride, and incentive back.
Aren't the grassroots businesses the same "damn corporations and companies" out to enslave you and siphon off your resources and wealth?

In one sentence you praise them but in another you condemn them.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:38 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
You can have those call centered jobs that pay minimum wage. Have at them.
What part of this dont you understand? The ONLY reason they pay minimum wage is because you just shipped every other job overseas.. Your response, lets ship more of them..

What jobs exactly are left? Fast food, retail? Do you think they will pay more money?
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