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Old 05-25-2014, 06:57 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
If you believe that taxation is force, then you have a perverted sense of what is you versus what is money.
I completely disagree. For example, when a certain segment of the population is forced to work nearly 1/4 of the year as federal income tax slaves, it's forced slave labor that benefits others.

THIS is how grotesquely unfair that is:



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Old 05-25-2014, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
If you believe that taxation is force, then you have a perverted sense of what is you versus what is money.
Here's my logic:
Taxes are involuntary, therefore you are forced to pay them. If you don't pay, the government will use violence against you (try to lock you in a cage, if you resist they hurt or kill you).

You might say "we elect people to do that, so it's voluntary", but I personally never agreed to let anyone steal the money I honestly earned. You might then say "then you can move", to which I would say...no. (1) Why should I be the one to move? Because I'm outnumbered? (2) moving to another country will leave me in the same situation. (3) Living in the wilderness is not the same thing as living in a developed government-free society...

I feel like I just opened up a big discussion that I can't explain in full detail right now, but the general idea is that I follow the non-aggression principle.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:59 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,781,638 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
I completely disagree. For example, when a certain segment of the population is forced to work nearly 1/4 of the year as federal income tax slaves, it's forced slave labor that benefits others.
This doesn't invalidate the entire concept of taxation, it just suggests that it's unfairly distributed.
And I agree.

Taxes need to go way up for the wealthy, and way down for the poor.
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:52 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
This doesn't invalidate the entire concept of taxation, it just suggests that it's unfairly distributed.
And I agree.

Taxes need to go way up for the wealthy, and way down for the poor.
Why? There is already a grotesquely unfair distribution of the tax proceeds. Why should the top 1% be forced to work as federal income tax slaves for 1/4 of the year, and only get a return of 6 cents worth of federal government services and benefits for every $1 of federal income tax paid? That's a 94% loss.

Why should the bottom 20% get $8.13 worth of federal government services and benefits for every $1 of federal tax they pay? That's a 713% gain.

Why are some forced to pay and not get their money's worth, while others barely contribute or don't even contribute at all, and leech off society? Since when did parasitism become fashionable?
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:03 PM
 
Location: California
262 posts, read 155,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
This doesn't invalidate the entire concept of taxation, it just suggests that it's unfairly distributed.
And I agree.

Taxes need to go way up for the wealthy, and way down for the poor.
Foolish statement, IMHO. Did you ever get a job from a poor person?

Where in the world do you think jobs come from? Try the wealthy people who invest their $'s or start business enterprises.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:17 PM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,705,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Here's my logic:
That's not logic. It's rationalization for antisocial preferences.
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:42 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,781,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrysda View Post
Foolish statement, IMHO. Did you ever get a job from a poor person?

Where in the world do you think jobs come from? Try the wealthy people who invest their $'s or start business enterprises.
That is the biggest, most complete lie in politics.

Rich People Actually Don't Create The Jobs - Business Insider

Middle class consumers create jobs.
Most corporations go out of their way to CUT jobs from the market, because it helps their profit margins.
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:52 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,781,638 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Why? There is already a grotesquely unfair distribution of the tax proceeds. Why should the top 1% be forced to work as federal income tax slaves for 1/4 of the year, and only get a return of 6 cents worth of federal government services and benefits for every $1 of federal income tax paid? That's a 94% loss.

Why should the bottom 20% get $8.13 worth of federal government services and benefits for every $1 of federal tax they pay? That's a 713% gain.

Why are some forced to pay and not get their money's worth, while others barely contribute or don't even contribute at all, and leech off society? Since when did parasitism become fashionable?
There wouldn't be any parasitism if the wealthy weren't deliberately excluding both humans and animals from their fair share of the planet's resources by force. It isn't exactly a tragedy if someone is making $5 billion instead of $19 billion, but if someone is making $20k instead of $30k, that's significant... and if the emphasis was on creating jobs instead of shipping them overseas or replacing them with robots for profit, then it wouldn't be such an issue.

In a fair world, you would either get rid of the concept of private property or you would share... it's that simple. But it's not a fair world, and if poor people are willing to accept that then the least you could do is stop pretending that rich people are victims... that's insulting to anyone with even a degree of intelligence.
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Old 05-25-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
There wouldn't be any parasitism if the wealthy weren't deliberately excluding both humans and animals from their fair share of the planet's resources by force.
How are they doing it by force? Which wealthy people are forcing school kids to blow off their studies and flunk out of school, etc.? Which wealthy people are forcing unwed young women to get pregnant and bear children they have no means to care for? Do tell...
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Old 05-25-2014, 03:06 PM
 
41,110 posts, read 25,734,548 times
Reputation: 13868
Force is how Liberals think then have the nerve to say they are compassionate. Yep, with money they didn't earn.

Liberals are now thieves
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