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It's very easy to defend killing someone when your family's life is OBVIOUSLY in danger, but what about when it's something like you hear you car being started outside your house in the middle of the night. Unless your fear is that he's going to drive into your living room, do you think it's still justified to assume he's going to "kill you, rape your wife then kill her, then sell your child to someone.."
Based on what? If he chooses to rob a place that looks empty, he obviously has some concern for life.
He does not respect his life as equal if he deliberately breaks in knowing the owner can kill him. He does not think the owners life is equal to his or his life equal to the owners.
If they break in when you are home, you are automatically in danger.
I feel sick to my stomach that there are folks posting here who truly believe you should try to read the heart of someone who has already given you every reason to believe they will harm you, rather than take immediate action to protect your family.
It's very easy to defend killing someone when your family's life is OBVIOUSLY in danger, but what about when it's something like you hear you car being started outside your house in the middle of the night. Unless your fear is that he's going to drive into your living room, do you think it's still justified to assume he's going to "kill you, rape your wife then kill her, then sell your child to someone.."
Based on what? If he chooses to rob a place that looks empty, he obviously has some concern for life.
Your moving the goal posts, someone taking a car is not what we are talking about.
It's very easy to defend killing someone when your family's life is OBVIOUSLY in danger, but what about when it's something like you hear you car being started outside your house in the middle of the night. Unless your fear is that he's going to drive into your living room, do you think it's still justified to assume he's going to "kill you, rape your wife then kill her, then sell your child to someone.."
Based on what? If he chooses to rob a place that looks empty, he obviously has some concern for life.
Yea.....his.....and not wanting to get caught and sent to jail or shot......his concern certainly isn't for the homeowner's life, or how his crime is going to impact the homeowner's life.
I have little sympathy for thieves and the like, but from the moral discussion of when is it justifiable to take a life, violating the sanctity of the home doesn't cut it.
I disagree. Because a burglar can't violate the sanctity of your home without presenting a threat to YOU and your family that are inside.
Violating the sanctity of a home definitely does cut it.
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You don't know. That's the point. Unless that person chases after you when you escape, or tries to force themselves into whatever area you're defending,
That's exactly what he just did. The area I'm defending is called "my home". That's why I put a lock on the door. Because I'm defending it. 24/7.
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you're making the assumption that he's trying to kill you.
No, I'm making the assumption he may be trying to kill me, or injure me or my family.
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This discussion is going to come down to whether you believe all life is inherently equal,
Only if various people who can't handle the real question, are the only ones doing the discussing.
Unfortunately for you, that's not the case.
Normal people know that the real question is, "If an unknown person commits the major violation of breaking into my home, can I possibly risk assuming he WON'T commit another major violation and attack my person or my loved ones?"
And unless he turns and runs away instantly, the answer is a clear and definite NO. I can't assume he won't do anything more.
That puts him in a very bad position. He might wind up injured or dead in the next half second. I hope he thinks about that BEFORE he decides to break down my door.
For those who don't think about it, I'll do what I HAVE to.
I disagree. Because a burglar can't violate the sanctity of your home without presenting a threat to YOU and your family that are inside.
Violating the sanctity of a home definitely does cut it.
Of course they can. If you're not home when they break in, are you justified w/ tracking them down, and executing them?
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That's exactly what he just did. The area I'm defending is called "my home". That's why I put a lock on the door. Because I'm defending it. 24/7.
Yes... in a very loose definition of defending, hence the castle doctrine.
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No, I'm making the assumption he may be trying to kill me, or injure me or my family.
That's even worse if you accept that the person may not be trying to harm you, yet you still decide to kill them.
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Only if various people who can't handle the real question, are the only ones doing the discussing.
Unfortunately for you, that's not the case.
Normal people know that the real question is, "If an unknown person commits the major violation of breaking into my home, can I possibly risk assuming he WON'T commit another major violation and attack my person or my loved ones?"
And where does that "risk" the other person poses end? If they're already on the way out when you catch them, are they still a "risk?" What if they're already gone?
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And unless he turns and runs away instantly, the answer is a clear and definite NO. I can't assume he won't do anything more.
That puts him in a very bad position. He might wind up injured or dead in the next half second. I hope he thinks about that BEFORE he decides to break down my door.
For those who don't think about it, I'll do what I HAVE to.
So rather than give the thief the opportunity to leave w/ your stuff w/o harming anyone, you'd rather force the confrontation that will lead to at least one of you being injured?
He does not respect his life as equal if he deliberately breaks in knowing the owner can kill him. He does not think the owners life is equal to his or his life equal to the owners.
Choosing to confront someone and choosing to avoid someone is a huge factor in whether you value the other person's life, especially if you have the element of surprise.
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Originally Posted by shooting4life
Your moving the goal posts, someone taking a car is not what we are talking about.
You're right. I forgot we're limiting it to in the house. Change the spot to the garage instead.
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Originally Posted by Annie53
Yea.....his.....and not wanting to get caught and sent to jail or shot......his concern certainly isn't for the homeowner's life, or how his crime is going to impact the homeowner's life.
Maybe, maybe not, but he's not trying to instigate a confrontation. He's not breaking in to wait for the homeowners to come back, and then rob the place.
If someone breaks into your house, do they deserve death for it? Even if they're not even armed? There's been several stories in the news about teenagers who broke into old men's homes and were slain unnecessarily after the threat was neutralized and the general consensus was that the men were heroes for protecting their stuff.
Now I'm sure being burgled is traumatic, but is it really a greater evil than killing an intruder? Especially if there was no reason to do so aside from revenge? If so why not treat it the same as murder if apparently it's equally serious and make it a capital crime you can be executed for?
Depends what kind of thief we are talking about. Bankers and hedge fund managers who steal and break the law everyday- absolutely!
But seriously, there is another part which you ignore: if those burglars know they may get shot and killed, some would hesitate, or maybe think twice. What you suggest is giving them immunity, which only encourages these acts.
Here is an example: I live in a quiet suburban neighborhood, where most people know each other. There is not much going on during the day. Last year, I was surprised to find 2 young man in my backyard. They were riding bicycles. When they saw me, they ran away as fast as they could. Later, we found out that 3 homes were burglarized and a few iphones, laptops and some cash (not large sums) were stolen. Nothing like that happened before in this neighborhood.
Anyway, I almost caught them and one would assume that it would be enough to convince them to stop. When police arrived to take evidence, they told us that these two, were doing the same every day, each time in a different neighborhood. Eventually, they were caught a month later, in a small town, after braking a window. Their MO was similar. They would drive a car from the city, park it a mile away and ride their bikes to the homes they targeted. When finished, they would put the bikes back in the trunk and, voila! The day's work was done. For them, it was an occupation. They were figuring that at most, they will get arrested, but nothing serious could happen. If these two were convinced they will get shot, killed or maimed, maybe they would reconsider. Maybe.
Choosing to confront someone and choosing to avoid someone is a huge factor in whether you value the other person's life, especially if you have the element of surprise.
You're right. I forgot we're limiting it to in the house. Change the spot to the garage instead.
Maybe, maybe not, but he's not trying to instigate a confrontation. He's not breaking in to wait for the homeowners to come back, and then rob the place.
Choosing to break into someone house is a display of what you think of risking your own life and how you value it
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