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Old 05-08-2014, 08:30 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,663,022 times
Reputation: 18521

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
It really hasn't that's just an interpretation in some of the right wing religious states, not sure what they hope to accomplish through these symbolic gestures other than to irritate other religions. I'm not sure where else you can see a monument of the 10 commandments. Some local governments do allow temporary religious symbols at the local level for all religions.

Do you think it's healthy to start promoting one religion in government offices, would you also welcome a Buddhist monument.

Sure!

The gods of the sun, moon, and mother earth, are represented in North Dakota, by the tribe of the area in the State house.

Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Jewish, Baptist, Mormon and a host of others have been represented in the Texas Capitol rotunda, for over a century and a half.


It would be the call of the people of the State or community.
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Old 05-09-2014, 04:10 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,074 posts, read 10,713,084 times
Reputation: 8798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Well, if there no connection to the Christian religion, why does the "In God We Trust" appear in all kinds of official documents?
First: The phrase seems to have been invented in the 19th century. (Hint: Our nation was founded in the 18th century.)

Second: Many of the most notable founders of our nation were member of my religion, not your religion, and therefore if God was a feature in the founding of the nation it was our unitarian God, not your trinitarian God. (Needless to say, my point here it so mirror the absolutely nonsensical nature of your comment by showing that your "logic" leads to the exact opposite conclusion you thought it did.)
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Michigan
12,711 posts, read 13,486,551 times
Reputation: 4185
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Can we have a little further explanation other than a statement?

Because I ain't buying it.

You have every right to bend down and pray at my feet, or not.
That last sentence seems like a restatement of the PP.

Perhaps the French phrased it better: rather than the duality "freedom of/freedom from", they proclaimed "universal liberty of conscience".
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:27 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,952,281 times
Reputation: 15935
I confess that I am astonished that in this day and age such drivel can come forth from a chief justice of a state supreme court.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:58 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,748,463 times
Reputation: 14745
what difference does it make what religion the "founding fathers" were?
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:33 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,322,479 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It appears you have been seriously misinformed, but as luck would have it, Jefferson was kind enough to provide a couple of illuminating quotes:

"...it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

"...neither Pagan nor Mahomedan nor Jew ought to be excluded from the civil rights of the Commonwealth because of his religion..."

Buddhism was perhaps a bit out there even for well-read people of the 18th century, but yes - at least some of the founding fathers knew of other religions and quite openly spoke of their insistence that civil rights extend across beliefs. They weren't the common clay of the new West, they were thinkers, readers, renaissance men.

Glad we got that sorted.
I think you missed the point, but I'm not surprised. You probably believe that the First Amendment's so-called "separation clause" was to protect the government from religion.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:53 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,322,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
I don't care if the pope himself or Jesus came down from heaven and founded this country. We've moved beyond that point now.

Let me ask you this. This country was founded with slavery and women have little to no rights. How come none of you conservatives ever argue that because the almighty founding fathers founded this country with slavery and subjugation of women that we should revert back to that state?

I'm constantly puzzled why conservatives never understand this very simple concept. If you get to oppress other religious sects because you're the majority, then what's to prevent others from oppressing you once you're no longer the majority? The only way to let everyone worship or not worship based on whatever they choose to is for the government to stay the hell out of religion. This means the only way everyone can enjoy religious freedom is for the government to be secular. Keep your bible off my wall and I'll keep my atheistic satanist human sacrifice off your family.
Slavery was not sanctioned by the Founders. It existed prior to our Declaration of Independence. The Founders understood the problem of slavery even as the Constitution was being drafted. A history lesson might help you with your confusion here. Study the arguments over the Kansas-Nebraska Act.

Who is "oppressing" other religions? Nobody I know of. But the so-called "separation clause" of the First Amendment was to protect the church (specifically the Christian church) from the government establishing one sect as the officially recognized church (as the British Government had established the Church of England). This is historical fact. That was the impetus for the First Amendment. There were many different Christian sects, and they feared the establishment by the new government of one sect as the national religion.

Again, a study of history, and especially the Constitution, would clear up your confusion.
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Old 05-13-2014, 05:57 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,209,482 times
Reputation: 9623
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
A history lesson might help you with your confusion here. Study the arguments over the Kansas-Nebraska Act.


Again, a study of history, and especially the Constitution, would clear up your confusion.
Your suggestion will be ignored, and probably mocked. The truth doesn't fit their agenda.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:00 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,322,479 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Second: Many of the most notable founders of our nation were member of my religion, not your religion, and therefore if God was a feature in the founding of the nation it was our unitarian God, not your trinitarian God. (Needless to say, my point here it so mirror the absolutely nonsensical nature of your comment by showing that your "logic" leads to the exact opposite conclusion you thought it did.)
This is pure myth. The Colonists were by-and-large all of various Christian sects (many of whom were Calvinists). That includes the Founders.

Modern so-called historians, not friendly to Christianity, have tried to disassociate the Founders from Christianity by claiming (as you have) that they were "deists," but the historical record, and their writings offer no support for that myth.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:06 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,322,479 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Your suggestion will be ignored, and probably mocked. The truth doesn't fit their agenda.
I realize that completely. They don't want the truth. What they have been taught, the watered down and re-written history of the USA and the Constitution, which supports their anti-Christian, "Progressive" ideology is what they will accept, and nothing else. Actual history be damned.
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