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Being one of those liberals, maybe I'm just a little slow on the uptake here, but I see an essential tension between there is no way God would create one of his children this way on the one hand, and sexual orientation is God-given on the other. How are these statements to be reconciled?
"An essential tension." Goodness.
Well I thought I explained my position in the last post. . . Maybe we can look at it from another angle . . Positive ions attract negative ions in nature, correct? There are no alterations to this in nature I think we will agree. . . there are no homosexual ions!
God created us in His image. Man has free will. God created Man, and then Woman. He oriented us so to speak to be attracted to the opposite sex. However being that man has free will he can choose to go against nature and seek out well. . nuff said.
And yes, we as humans are hard-wired in many ways but as far as my faith, my sexuality, and my political affiliation, thank goodness it is all by choice!
And I feel empathy for anyone who feels they don't have a choice in these things. It must make for a frustrating life.
you have to choose to be straight???? so then you've been tempted its ok lesbians are hot. wait, you don't have a mullet do you? i definitly have no choice in my sexual orientation, or perversion what ever you want to call it. no its not frustrating. im straight i like women. if i "decided" to be gay itd be a physical impossibility to have intercourse, and a severe discomfort in everything else. no its not frustrating that i can't choose. it would be frustrating if i had to choose to like women everyday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1
Well I thought I explained my position in the last post. . . Maybe we can look at it from another angle . . Positive ions attract negative ions in nature, correct? There are no alterations to this in nature I think we will agree. . . there are no homosexual ions!
God created us in His image. Man has free will. God created Man, and then Woman. He oriented us so to speak to be attracted to the opposite sex. However being that man has free will he can choose to go against nature and seek out well. . nuff said.
Do you know when this choice occurs? Is it at puberty? Is it in kindergarten? Does it occur spontaneously? How does a person elect to go against nature?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1
God created us in His image. Man has free will. God created Man, and then Woman. He oriented us so to speak to be attracted to the opposite sex. However being that man has free will he can choose to go against nature and seek out well. . nuff said.
Do you know when this choice occurs? Is it at puberty? Is it in kindergarten? Does it occur spontaneously? How does a person elect to go against nature?
Do I know when this choice occurs?
Well, as in any choice we make, it can be made at any time in one's life. But I'll give one example:
I had a coworker (female) who was straight, guy crazy actually. Then she married and he cheated on her. When she was about 30 she met a very attractive girl at a party (lesbian). I guess they "clicked" and a friendship developed. Long story the co-worker decided was attracted to said girl, and she made the choice to lead this lifestyle.
But let me make it clear, she let it be known that she made a choice! Not all people may have this insight.
FYI I do believe there are homosexuals who believe it is not their choice. My opinion is that they are deceived.
With all do respect I must add when I answer this question, and many others I feel it is in some way a "set up." I have doubts that the question was asked in earnest. . . but I answer in earnest anyway. And I would appreciate it if I didn't get pounced on and a plethera of red dots to follow!
This forum is about opinions, this is mine. I don't think I should have to remind people of this.
Well, as in any choice we make, it can be made at any time in one's life. But I'll give one example:
I had a coworker (female) who was straight, guy crazy actually. Then she married and he cheated on her. When she was about 30 she met a very attractive girl at a party (lesbian). I guess they "clicked" and a friendship developed. Long story the co-worker decided was attracted to said girl, and she made the choice to lead this lifestyle.
But let me make it clear, she let it be known that she made a choice! Not all people may have this insight.
FYI I do believe there are homosexuals who believe it is not their choice. My opinion is that they are deceived.
With all do respect I must add when I answer this question, and many others I feel it is in some way a "set up." I have doubts that the question was asked in earnest. . . but I answer in earnest anyway. And I would appreciate it if I didn't get pounced on and a plethera of red dots to follow!
This forum is about opinions, this is mine. I don't think I should have to remind people of this.
I also realize my opinion is not popular.
You will NEVER get far if you cannot get past the difference between "sexual orientation" and "engaging in sexual acts."
A gay man married to a woman, having sex with that woman while thinking about guys at the gym, is not STRAIGHT. He is a gay man having straight sex.
Similarly, your friend did not "become a lesbian." She entered into a lesbian relationship, and is a straight woman engaging in lesbian sex. SHE is going "against her nature," as is the gay man in a straight relationship.
Again, for the 100th time: ORIENTATION is not a choice. Engaging in any certain sex ACTS are a choice.
For example, being obsessively attracted to hairy women, or blonde women, or morbidly obese women is something you do not consciously choose. If you happen to have sex with a woman who is hairy, blode, fat, it was your CHOICE to do so, but it doesn't mean you are "oriented" towards hairy, fat, or blonde women.
Similarly, my little brother has always had Latina and black girlfriends... since like, elementary school he's had crushes on Hawaiian girls, Colombian girls, etc.... currently he's dating a black/chinese girl. I don't think it's a conscious choice for him to exclude attraction towards "girl next door" American white girls....... even if the whole "tower of babel" thing preaches that God MUST have "wired" him that way, and he's only CHOOSING to date "minority" girls.
You will NEVER get far if you cannot get past the difference between "sexual orientation" and "engaging in sexual acts."
Similarly, your friend did not "become a lesbian." She entered into a lesbian relationship, and is a straight woman engaging in lesbian sex. SHE is going "against her nature," as is the gay man in a straight relationship.
Again, for the 100th time: ORIENTATION is not a choice. Engaging in any certain sex ACTS are a choice.
I like chocolate. Ever since I was little I was "attracted" to chocolate. Would you consider me "hard-wired" to seek out chocolate?
Every time I want a piece I exercise a choice whether to indulge or not. Or, using your analaogy; I am "oriented" to chocolate, but the act of eating chocolate is my choice.
And as far as your stating my co-worker isn't a lesbian you are playing semantics. She made a choice to become a lesbian. She is fully engaged in this life style. She is in fact the very definition of a lesbian:
Of or relating to females who experience a sexual attraction toward and responsiveness to other females; a homosexual female
You will NEVER get far if you cannot get past the difference between "sexual orientation" and "engaging in sexual acts."
A gay man married to a woman, having sex with that woman while thinking about guys at the gym, is not STRAIGHT. He is a gay man having straight sex.
Similarly, your friend did not "become a lesbian." She entered into a lesbian relationship, and is a straight woman engaging in lesbian sex. SHE is going "against her nature," as is the gay man in a straight relationship.
Again, for the 100th time: ORIENTATION is not a choice. Engaging in any certain sex ACTS are a choice.
For example, being obsessively attracted to hairy women, or blonde women, or morbidly obese women is something you do not consciously choose. If you happen to have sex with a woman who is hairy, blode, fat, it was your CHOICE to do so, but it doesn't mean you are "oriented" towards hairy, fat, or blonde women.
Similarly, my little brother has always had Latina and black girlfriends... since like, elementary school he's had crushes on Hawaiian girls, Colombian girls, etc.... currently he's dating a black/chinese girl. I don't think it's a conscious choice for him to exclude attraction towards "girl next door" American white girls....... even if the whole "tower of babel" thing preaches that God MUST have "wired" him that way, and he's only CHOOSING to date "minority" girls.
Thats a very conveniant argument, I find it interesting how, if you were hetero and then go homo you have come to terms with who you really are but if you were homo and go hetero you are denying your true "orentation". Here's a question is driving a subaru part of the orentation or is that a choice.
Thats a very conveniant argument, I find it interesting how, if you were hetero and then go homo you have come to terms with who you really are but if you were homo and go hetero you are denying your true "orentation". Here's a question is driving a subaru part of the orentation or is that a choice.
Its only part of the orientation if there's a golden retriever in the back.
You provided a good example in terms of choice. Now I do wonder how many people who define themselves as homosexual, male or female, make these conscious choices. I have talked with probably thousands of gay-identified folks (having worked within the community) and rarely do I hear a similar story as the one you shared about your co-worker, although, I did hear of many young women (more than men) choosing to date other women in the later part of high school and college.
The question remains ambiguous (to me) at what stage in life a person selects a sexual orientation or elects to identify as homosexual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1
Do I know when this choice occurs?
Well, as in any choice we make, it can be made at any time in one's life. But I'll give one example:
I had a coworker (female) who was straight, guy crazy actually. Then she married and he cheated on her. When she was about 30 she met a very attractive girl at a party (lesbian). I guess they "clicked" and a friendship developed. Long story the co-worker decided was attracted to said girl, and she made the choice to lead this lifestyle.
But let me make it clear, she let it be known that she made a choice! Not all people may have this insight.
FYI I do believe there are homosexuals who believe it is not their choice. My opinion is that they are deceived.
With all do respect I must add when I answer this question, and many others I feel it is in some way a "set up." I have doubts that the question was asked in earnest. . . but I answer in earnest anyway.
This forum is about opinions, this is mine. I don't think I should have to remind people of this.
Folks, generally I delete mention of reputation points--it is a ToS violation--but I do want to remind everyone reading this and other threads, negative reputation is not intended as a means to disquality another member's POV. Penalties will ensue and in fact, I have reported to the Senior Moderators that we have been experiencing a rash of abuse of the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1
With all do respect I must add when I answer this question, and many others I feel it is in some way a "set up." I have doubts that the question was asked in earnest. . . but I answer in earnest anyway. And I would appreciate it if I didn't get pounced on and a plethera of red dots to follow!
This forum is about opinions, this is mine. I don't think I should have to remind people of this.
I also realize my opinion is not popular.
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so then you've been tempted
Sure Sign
