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There's a heck of a lot of folk who believe America's exceptionalism means vast and virtually unlimited military involvement because fate has somehow designated the US the world's authority figure. It's right up there with the whole leader of the free world thing.
Military intervention and war have sustained the US economy for the better part of 100 years. We give other countries military financial aid so they can buy military equipment from US manufacturers. Wars are business, big business. Layoffs occur when the US is not engaged in war or other military interventions.
Well it is coming to an end or we will go the way of Rome and not just like the USSR.
For those that are religious, take heed:
Very interesting video with a lot of wild "coincidences" that have taken place:
You guys have gotta stop oversimplifying this thing with speech about 72 virgins and the like. That's silly and it's counterproductive.
.
The Quran is silent on the 72 virgin thing. Interpretations described paradise as having 80,000 servants and 72 wives. It 's marketing and does not mention the added bonus of 72 mother in laws.
Ok, I'm gonna try and make a point that steers away from any political bias: what can we actually do about terrorists?
Islam extremism won't just go away. Take a look at Nazism. Still around. Yeah, it's not a world power anymore, but it won't go away. Ever. ISIS is just another version of Nazis, and how would we even stop them. ISIS, Al Queada... it's all the same thing under a different name.
ISIS won't take over the world. The Nazis couldn't do it, and lets face it, Germany was a real world power capable of quickly industrializing and militarizing. Iraq is not. It's not even close. Iraq, like most countries in the Middle East and Africa, is still haunted by the ghost of European colonialism. White people showed up, stuck a flag in the ground, and drew a line in the sand to mark their territory and they did this without regard to cultural boundaries. In short, we put warring cultures in the same country and when we pull out and leave it as a sovereign state, the government ends up being run by one of the cultures and oppressing the other.
The sad fact is, the Middle East is a mess and there's not a lot we can do about it. Islamic fundamentalism is a reality in the Middle East and there's nothing that can actually be done about it. Kill of ISIS... great! Then what. Some other group shows up with the same backwards intentions. We can spend decades and trillions of dollars fighting this, but in the end, it's not going to be worth it. It's like the hydra of Greek mythology; cut off one head, and two more replace it.
So what do we do? I don't know. I know that war has been unsuccessful. I guess that leaves too options: either create a new combat strategy that is better suited for our enemy, or a cheaper option, leave the Middle East. Personally, I vote leave the Middle East. The fact is, even if ISIS seizes several Middle Eastern countries, the moment they become a real threat, they have to answer to pretty much all of Western Europe and North America. I guess if we really want to sell weapons (sell, not give; we have too much debt for giving to be an option) to those whom we deem worthy, go for it. But we don't know how to stop this threat, and I see no point in placing the lives of Americans in danger for a strategy that has yet to actually achieve the results we want.
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,736,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Okay...so we get attacked in 2001, and we launch a war in Afghanistan. Then we go to Iraq in 2003 and supposedly, we were "fighting them there (terrorists) so we don't have to fight them here."
We managed to fill up Guantanamo with "dangerous terrorists" () and we captured a bunch of others and sent them abroad under a policy of rendition.
Our government keeps telling us that they killed the "number two man in Al Qaeda" (about 100 times) and we got Bin Laden.
So then, why in 2014 are we facing some thread named ISIS who according to many conservatives is poised to dominate and take over the whole world?
What exactly were we doing between 2001 and 2014 and were we really having all this success against terrorists that our Pentagon and CIA claimed that we did?
What the real truth appears to be is that we CREATED a bunch of terrorists and terrorism more than we extinguished them...by a long shot.
In fact, outside of a few big named terrorists that we've manage to kill or capture, I don't think we've had a lick of success against terrorism. Most of those bozos in Guantanamo are probably nothing more than p*ssed off goat herders that got turned in by people that had a personal beef with them.
We've dropped hundreds of billions of dollars on this GWOT and we've got nothing to show for it. Not from what I can see anyway. The Middle East is just as jacked up as it was in 2001.
There's a heck of a lot of folk who believe America's exceptionalism means vast and virtually unlimited military involvement because fate has somehow designated the US the world's authority figure. It's right up there with the whole leader of the free world thing.
I have come to agree with MAM and desertdetroiter on this. After what I have seen transpire (and not transpire) since Sept 2001 I have become skeptical of supposed patriotic Americans who push the idea that we are supposedly do gooders taking on a righteous role of making the world "safe" which I think often is a cloaked excuse for other motives.
I thought American exceptionalism was defined by our constitution and bill of rights, since when is it defined by acting as a empire or the police of the world?
If we want to keep America safe (as can be) we should focus on preventing terrorists from making it over here, by being watchful who we let immigrate here and by watching our borders better. This idea that we must "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here" is a failed excuse.
Seriously what is the likelihood that any of them could bring a nuke or biological weapon over here? That is our main concern something which special ops and security can deal with, it is not that we must engage in endless war over there against a religion that will never go away.
I don't see how someone can get all scared over some rag head who is thousands of miles away and separated by oceans worrying that we'll be the next Israel in terms of dealing with often terrorists attacks. Sure they did 9/11,but its not like that is gonna happen all the time.
And as far as 9/11 why didn't they go hit Japan, or Canada, or New Zealand, or Brazil or Mexico?, all of which are non muslim infidel countries. Maybe it has less to do with islam and more to do that we involved ourselves there compared to other countries that are just as christian or non muslim thus infidels.
While I agree that the war on terror has not had a lot of success. Look at this from a Republican point of view. While Bush was in office the pay and benefits in the military was increased. The average serviceman earns $92,000 in pay and benefits. Thats double 13 years ago. While I am driving a 12 year old junk car my neighbor at the local base has a new car. After 4-6 years in the military when a vet separates he can apply for a disabilty. 45% of veterans apply for disabilty and more than 90% are approved. That disablity not only get you a monthly check but free VA care. If that isnt enough veterans who retire with a service retirement are now eligible to collect a disabilty retirement thanks to Bush. Aint life great you get two checks and free health care. By the way 91% of veterans never saw combat. Bottom line is the war on terror was a success...more Republican voters for Republicans.
I have come to agree with MAM and desertdetroiter on this. After what I have seen transpire (and not transpire) since Sept 2001 I have become skeptical of supposed patriotic Americans who push the idea that we are supposedly do gooders taking on a righteous role of making the world "safe" which I think often is a cloaked excuse for other motives.
I thought American exceptionalism was defined by our constitution and bill of rights, since when is it defined by acting as a empire or the police of the world?
If we want to keep America safe (as can be) we should focus on preventing terrorists from making it over here, by being watchful who we let immigrate here and by watching our borders better. This idea that we must "fight them there so we don't have to fight them here" is a failed excuse.
Seriously what is the likelihood that any of them could bring a nuke or biological weapon over here? That is our main concern something which special ops and security can deal with, it is not that we must engage in endless war over there against a religion that will never go away.
I don't see how someone can get all scared over some rag head who is thousands of miles away and separated by oceans worrying that we'll be the next Israel in terms of dealing with often terrorists attacks. Sure they did 9/11,but its not like that is gonna happen all the time.
And as far as 9/11 why didn't they go hit Japan, or Canada, or New Zealand, or Brazil or Mexico?, all of which are non muslim infidel countries. Maybe it has less to do with islam and more to do that we involved ourselves there compared to other countries that are just as christian or non muslim thus infidels.
Excellent points...all of them.
Follow the money...that's all i've got to say on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by borregokid
While I agree that the war on terror has not had a lot of success. Look at this from a Republican point of view. While Bush was in office the pay and benefits in the military was increased. The average serviceman earns $92,000 in pay and benefits. Thats double 13 years ago. While I am driving a 12 year old junk car my neighbor at the local base has a new car. After 4-6 years in the military when a vet separates he can apply for a disabilty. 45% of veterans apply for disabilty and more than 90% are approved. That disablity not only get you a monthly check but free VA care. If that isnt enough veterans who retire with a service retirement are now eligible to collect a disabilty retirement thanks to Bush. Aint life great you get two checks and free health care. By the way 91% of veterans never saw combat. Bottom line is the war on terror was a success...more Republican voters for Republicans.
You're getting warmer.
Again, follow the money...AND the votes. (good observation)
Okay...so we get attacked in 2001, and we launch a war in Afghanistan. Then we go to Iraq in 2003 and supposedly, we were "fighting them there (terrorists) so we don't have to fight them here."
We managed to fill up Guantanamo with "dangerous terrorists" () and we captured a bunch of others and sent them abroad under a policy of rendition.
Our government keeps telling us that they killed the "number two man in Al Qaeda" (about 100 times) and we got Bin Laden.
So then, why in 2014 are we facing some thread named ISIS who according to many conservatives is poised to dominate and take over the whole world?
What exactly were we doing between 2001 and 2014 and were we really having all this success against terrorists that our Pentagon and CIA claimed that we did?
What the real truth appears to be is that we CREATED a bunch of terrorists and terrorism more than we extinguished them...by a long shot.
In fact, outside of a few big named terrorists that we've manage to kill or capture, I don't think we've had a lick of success against terrorism. Most of those bozos in Guantanamo are probably nothing more than p*ssed off goat herders that got turned in by people that had a personal beef with them.
We've dropped hundreds of billions of dollars on this GWOT and we've got nothing to show for it. Not from what I can see anyway. The Middle East is just as jacked up as it was in 2001.
All these "terrorists" were once allies that we trained and armed and sent forth to fight our proxy wars.
Think about that.....
All these "terrorists" were once allies that we trained and armed and sent forth to fight our proxy wars.
Think about that.....
Oh, i have...believe me.
We have a history of this stuff and it's coming back to bite us in the ass...big time.
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) and we captured a bunch of others and sent them abroad under a policy of rendition.
