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Old 09-16-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,765,593 times
Reputation: 20674

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
More likely, (because Obamacare opened the "interstate commerce" door) we will see insurance companies selling policies across state lines.
There is no federal law that prevents insurance from being sold across state lines. It's state laws that interfere with interstate commerce.

There are 50 state politically appointed insurance commissions that make state laws for insurance. No two state have the same laws. Absolute insanity.

Back when, Hillary Care sought to create regional commissions and exchanges with the intent of achieving a balance between high and low populated areas. The Republicans went wild and defended everything being at the state level with all the laws that prevent interstate commerce. ACA nipped that in the bud and instead, maintained the status quo at the state level.

Back when, Teddy Roosevelt campaigned on universal healthcare to the US and intended to adapt the German healthcare model, given they had the most experience. He got sidetracked and did not deliver on that campaign promise. Imagine if he had been able to see this through.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:00 PM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
Medicare survives because it's funded BY YOU AND I, not because of the wonderful efficiency of the government. If it were a private company with that much waste, it would have shut its doors years ago.
Long ago.
The typical Medicare beneficiary receives 3X the amount they put in. No other private venture could do this and stay open for business. And if you don't understand that this is a feature, then you might not understand why so many millions for so many years have been quite happy with being on Medicare.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,765,593 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntwrkguy1 View Post
And ALL of them are riddled with fraud and waste.

ALL OF THEM.

Government is rarely the answer, but almost always the problem.
That fraud and waste is perpetuated by medical practices, hospitals , medical suppliers who game the system.

Florida Governor Rick Scott resigned as CEO of Columbia/HCA in 1997 amid a controversy over the company's business and Medicare billing practices; the company ultimately admitted to 14 felonies and agreed to pay the federal government over $600 million, which was the largest fraud settlement in US history; Scott was successful in defending that he had no knowledge of these frauds and no charges were raised against him.

Medical practices, hospitals and medical supply companies also commit fraud against private insurers.

That some companies commit fraud is not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:20 PM
 
8,016 posts, read 5,863,789 times
Reputation: 9682
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
That fraud and waste is perpetuated by medical practices, hospitals , medical suppliers who game the system.

Florida Governor Rick Scott resigned as CEO of Columbia/HCA in 1997 amid a controversy over the company's business and Medicare billing practices; the company ultimately admitted to 14 felonies and agreed to pay the federal government over $600 million, which was the largest fraud settlement in US history; Scott was successful in defending that he had no knowledge of these frauds and no charges were raised against him.

Medical practices, hospitals and medical supply companies also commit fraud against private insurers.

That some companies commit fraud is not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Nice attempt at deflecting the blame to the people that commit the fraud.......but it's the government that's to blame for not catching this fraud.

That the federal government is unable to even ballpark HOW MUCH FRAUD there is in the system is a good reason to believe they cannot execute single-payer without bankrupting the country. The fact that taxpayers fund the government coffers simply means there will likely be no meaningful effort put forth by the government to reign in costs.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:20 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,973,518 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas View Post
So in the end even more Americans will be without healthcare coverage and there ya go off to a Single Payer system like they have in Europe. See how that is working out, heck I bet it went even faster than what those pulling the strings expected. The bigger question is will the Repubs take credit for it when we are all on the new system?
What "new system"?

The destroyed remains of the best health care in the world, thanks to the idiots in government?
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:21 PM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,247,766 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
And so it begins.......
It started a long time ago. You have been whining around here for ages.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,765,593 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
Which next step? A step towards the Swiss model, the UK model, the Canadian model, the German model?

Going towards the Swiss model would require a law that forces insurers to cover everyone regardless of age, provides subsidies based on income, eliminates Medicare/Medicaid/VA, and removes the employer mandate.

The Canadian model eliminates all the duplication and just expands Medicare.
The German model limits spending to revenues and operates on a regional basis.
The UK model has the DR's working for the state, much like the VA system.

What we have now is a hybrid of the Swiss, Canadian, and UK model. Obamacare is Swiss, Medicaid/Medicare are Canadian, and the VA is UK.
The Swiss model does not allow insurers to discriminate based on pre/existing conditions or age.

There is no Medicare/Medicare.

The concept of employee sponsored healthcare does not exist.

The Swiss government owns/operates most hospitals. The Swiss government negotiates the price of all prescription medications.

Unlike the US culture, the Swiss are risk adverse and 99% of the people comply with the mandate and have government mandated insurance. The Swiss government subsidizes the premium cost of about 40% of the population.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,765,593 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by lycos679 View Post
How much waste & fraud is in private insurance? It's definitely not zero. Is it higher than Medicare? I don't know, but I know that Medicare has a 10%+ fraud rate. Allegedly, private health care fraud is about 10% as well, soo...

Healthcare fraud | Wex Legal Dictionary / Encyclopedia | LII / Legal Information Institute
Private healthcare does not disclose fraud.

The cost of fraud is paid for by everyone.
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:26 PM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,267,905 times
Reputation: 3444
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
Before ACA we had about 30 million uninsured in the nation, now its about 41 million.

Are you sure we're working in the right direction?
I don't believe you.

In 2007 the uninsured number was 45.7 million.
In 2006 the number was 47 million.
2007 was the first decline in 7 years...

Number of Uninsured Americans Drops - US News

Now, the reason I don't believe you is 2007 was before the financial crisis and before employers started downsizing in response. According to the US census there were 49 million uninsured in 2009.

https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlth...ighlights.html

Also, according to the US census there were 46.3 million uninsured in 2008. Where are you getting the 30 million number from?

https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlth...2008/fig06.pdf
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:28 PM
 
8,016 posts, read 5,863,789 times
Reputation: 9682
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
The Swiss model does not allow insurers to discriminate based on pre/existing conditions or age.

There is no Medicare/Medicare.

The concept of employee sponsored healthcare does not exist.

The Swiss government owns/operates most hospitals. The Swiss government negotiates the price of all prescription medications.

Unlike the US culture, the Swiss are risk adverse and 99% of the people comply with the mandate and have government mandated insurance. The Swiss government subsidizes the premium cost of about 40% of the population.

Let's stop comparing apples to chainsaws.

Switzerland: 8,136,700 people
United States: 317,000,000 people


Things are a lot easier when you only have to deal with 8 million people.
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