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You are wrong here. Liberals pick the facts that fit their prior conclusion, and latch on like pit bulls so as not to disturb that predetermined and iron-clad conclusion. New facts that contradict the predetermined conclusion are ignored. More enlightened interpretation of existing facts that challenge the predetermined conclusion are ignored. (Figures don't lie, but liars figure...)
Liberals are no more in consonance with reality then the most fervent mystical Conservatives are. They just pick something different to have total faith in. And arrive at conclusions based on Faith that are every bit as strong as that of the most primitive Fundamentalist Christian.
Liberals bedeck themselves in smug superiority based on false pride in the fact that the recipient of their loving Faith has a locus on the planet rather than in overt fantasy. What they fail to conceive is that Faith in the False is equal - no matter where the divorce from Reality is located.
So you take the typical AGW liberal. There is not a fact that could ever be learned about climate that would dissuade him from the hate-filled conclusion that he has already embraced. It's not about the climate, it's about feeding the hate, and nothing in Reality can be allowed to change that. Nothing. No way. No how.
That is why you can put 100 AGW climate advocates in a room. And 90 of them will have nearly the EXACT SAME POLITICS. Statist, collectivist, hatred of Capitalism, anti-achievement, anti-individual, beotching about income inequality, pro-union, pro-welfare, pro-taxation, pro-social engineering, etc.
BTW this post should not be taken as pro-Conservative. I could find the exact same fault with the Conservatives by simply interchanging various modes of irrationality.
Both groups are the same in every important respect. And both groups will destroy freedom and liberty completely and with certitude in order to advance the brand of tyranny within which they have placed their utter and complete [I]FAITH[/i].
This post has got to be one of the most brilliantly written posts I've ever read on C-D.......
What a pleasure to actually read an intelligent piece.
I'm not the closed minded one here. While it is true that people become more tolerant with age, tolerance isn't the only thing that can be categorized as either conservative or liberal.
Conservatism and closed-mindedness almost always go hand in hand.
I'm not saying you personally are closed-minded, but this board seems anxious to aggressively dismiss any idea that seems liberal to the extent it is impossible that they could be choosing their opinions because of critical thinking or intelligence... in fact, hatred of liberals seems the most likely explanation for why they have the opinions they have.
Here's an article on conservative psychology that explains why they're less tolerant:
This intolerance of ambiguity can lead people to cling to the familiar, to arrive at premature conclusions, and to impose simplistic cliches and stereotypes, the researchers advised.
It explains why Hitler rose to power in Germany and why Bush won a second term... right wingers ignore anything that threatens their certainty, even when they're blatantly wrong, and during times of perceived crisis, their ability to project this certainty is appealing, even if it is rooted in total ignorance.
Their explanations for things tend to be less complex, more 'common sense' than scientific, intellectual or creative. They excel in situations where complex thinking is more a hindrance than an asset... however something as complex as social conditions and the psychology of poverty is beyond them, which is why they dismiss poor people as lazy parasites with no interest in improving themselves instead of actually trying to understand them, and they almost always choose black people (probably a woman) as their vision of the typical welfare parasite. These simplistic stereotypes appeal to their need for certainty and perpetuate their (often enthusiastic) tolerance of inequality.
Last edited by Spatula City; 10-11-2014 at 09:23 AM..
"While the surveys did not provide data for the same individuals at different stages, they represented snapshots of the changing attitudes of respondents in different age cohorts over time."
You cannot claim that people do not become more conservative with time by comparing different sets of people. You have to look at how attitudes CHANGE over time by looking at the SAME groups of people. (Did you even read the link before you posted it?)
Seriously? THIS is what you come back with? A comparison of different groups of people who grew up in different eras and you actually think this shows that people CHANGE their attitudes to be more liberal as they age? There is no doubt that society is becoming more liberal and has been for some time. It stands to reason that that would mean that there will be more liberals who are older as the population ages, however, that does not mean the people are CHANGING their attitudes as they age to become more liberal. Seriously? You need a longitudinal study to show this not two snapshots of people the same age. This doesn't show anything about how people change their attitudes over time. This shows how society has changed over time. It speaks nothing about individuals changing over time. To do that, you need to survey the same group at two different times.
Edited to add: I am aware that people tend to become more tolerant as they age but tolerance is only one aspect that can be categorized as liberal or conservative. What I have read is that attitudes about fiscal and personal responsibility become more conservative as we age. That is also my experience in life. I don't know anyone who has a more liberal attitude about fiscal responsibility than they did in their 20's, even my liberal BIL is more conservative here.
As I said, I'll have to see if I can find the research I'm thinking of which DOES compare the same groups of people at different points in their lives. The fact there are more liberal older people does NOT mean that people are becoming more liberal as they age. Not by a long shot.
So I guess that society just becomes more liberal on its own and the people who comprise that society have nothing to do with this? And they corrected for the fact that there were different respondents with unique baseline opinions. And besides, over 46000 people were involved... I'm pretty sure that's a decent sized sample of the population. And this isn't taking into account the fact that liberal today is more liberal than in 1972... meaning that modern conservatives are generally more liberal than they were 40+ years ago.
And tolerance is definitely a liberal virtue. No one who is truly egalitarian (and leftism is egalitarian) would condemn gays, blacks, Jews, Muslims, etc... but the hierarchical mindset of the conservative would gladly say that whites are superior to blacks because 'just look at Africa compared to America', and immediately feel certain due to intolerance of ambiguity, and aversion to examining in-depth the causes and effects of African poverty, the history of colonialism in Africa, the effect of foreign business, etc.
Conservatism and closed-mindedness almost always go hand in hand.
I'm not saying you personally are closed-minded, but this board seems anxious to aggressively dismiss any idea that seems liberal to the extent it is impossible that they could be choosing their opinions because of critical thinking or intelligence... in fact, hatred of liberals seems the most likely explanation for why they have the opinions they have.
Here's an article on conservative psychology that explains why they're less tolerant:
It explains why Hitler rose to power in Germany and why Bush won a second term... right wingers ignore anything that threatens their certainty, even when they're blatantly wrong, and during times of perceived crisis, their ability to project this certainty is appealing, even if it is rooted in total ignorance.
Their explanations for things tend to be less complex, more 'common sense' than scientific, intellectual or creative. They excel in situations where complex thinking is more a hindrance than an asset... however something as complex as social conditions and the psychology of poverty is beyond them, which is why they dismiss poor people as lazy parasites with no interest in improving themselves instead of actually trying to understand them, and they almost always choose black people (probably a woman) as their vision of the typical welfare parasite. These simplistic stereotypes appeal to their need for certainty and perpetuate their (often enthusiastic) tolerance of inequality.
No, that would be liberal intolerance of any non liberal idea. Just keep reading here. You'll find it.
So I guess that society just becomes more liberal on its own and the people who comprise that society have nothing to do with this? And they corrected for the fact that there were different respondents with unique baseline opinions. And besides, over 46000 people were involved... I'm pretty sure that's a decent sized sample of the population. And this isn't taking into account the fact that liberal today is more liberal than in 1972... meaning that modern conservatives are generally more liberal than they were 40+ years ago.
And tolerance is definitely a liberal virtue. No one who is truly egalitarian (and leftism is egalitarian) would condemn gays, blacks, Jews, Muslims, etc... but the hierarchical mindset of the conservative would gladly say that whites are superior to blacks because 'just look at Africa compared to America', and immediately feel certain due to intolerance of ambiguity, and aversion to examining in-depth the causes and effects of African poverty, the history of colonialism in Africa, the effect of foreign business, etc.
Society changes over time. It is swinging from conservative to liberal right now. The assumption is it will swing back but who knows. All societies end and are eventually replaced with something else. The only constant is change.
Tolerance is not a liberal virtue no matter how many times they say it. Liberals only tolerate people who think liberally. They are openly intolerant of anyone who thinks differently than them. When they point that finger of intolerance at conservatives they are pointing three fingers back at themselves. Liberals are just intolerant about different things than conservatives. Both are intolerant in their own way.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-11-2014 at 10:10 AM..
This article discusses what I was alluding to in my other post. That we tend to change our political ideologies as we age. I found it interesting that they said if they haven't changed by 30 they won't. That fits with what I have seen in life. The people who changed started doing so before they were 30 and just kept going. What's also interesting is I remember there being a slogan a long time ago about not trusting anyone over 30.
"This rightward shift in political personality is fairly universal, and so is the timing. A 2004 study by psychologists Robert McCrae and Jüri Allik in the Journal of Cross Cultural Psychology of 36 cultures across Africa, Europe, and Asia discovered that openness and conscientiousness differ between 18- to 22-year-olds and older adults. " .... "Consider the prefrontal cortex, which lies directly behind the forehead. It’s responsible for regulating emotions, controlling impulses, and making complex cost-benefit judgments that weigh immediate incentives against future consequences. Unlike most regions of the brain, the prefrontal cortex continues to grow, and its cautionary functions go on developing well into the mid-20s."
With the pre-frontal cortex still developing well into the mid 20's it should come as no surprise that political attitudes change. I would hope someone with a fully developed brain has a different attitude than someone with a not fully developed brain. Looking at this, I would expect very young voters to be more easily swayed by emotion, to more easily get caught up in the frey than older voters and to base their decisions on short term rewards over long term rewards.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-11-2014 at 10:12 AM..
I see an unsettling commonality between radical Muslims and far left Liberals. There seems to be absolutely no tolerance for any diversity of belief. There also seems to be a direct disconnect between intelligent Liberals and common sense. The oxymoron for the day: Common Sense Liberal.
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You have to look at how attitudes CHANGE over time by looking at the SAME groups of people. (Did you even read the link before you posted it?)
