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So let me get this straight. Black people need white people to accept them more, and this is the reason that they tend to be poorer, commit more violent crime, drop out of school, come from fatherless homes, etc?
Are blacks powerless to solve any of these problems on their own? They need whites to fix it for them?
This and some more of this. Check the poverty rates among blacks that ARE MARRIED. Check the drop out rate for black children who live with BOTH PARENTS. Check the educational achievement of blacks who grow up with BOTH PARENTS. You'll find that married couples do better in every category, and their children all succeed much more than those in the single parent environment.
The "black community" (in quotes because I hate the entire concept of grouping according to skin color instead of culture) has the highest single mother household percentage of any racial demographic. Single mother households have exactly nothing to do with the government, white people, slavery being legal prior to 1863, geography, economics or any other factor besides INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. No "community" can solve single parent child rearing. No "community" can solve lack of commitment on the part of parents. The single most glaring problem within that racial demographic can only be solved by individuals within it acting on an individual basis. No legislation, no matter how absurdly benevolent to them or punitive towards "whites", can fix what is a problem among individuals.
A single mother with 4 kids does have a craptastic life with very few choices to make it better. But one does not become a single mother with 4 kids because of white people, government, historical oppression, or anything else. One must have unprotected sex at least four times, carry four unborn children to term, and the father(s) of said children must choose to abandon the mother to single mother parenting.
How the fudge are white people supposed to fix that? What can I, as a white person, do to "help" a black man who engages in drive-by procreation or "help" the single mothers who lay down for such idiots and then bear these children that my tax dollars already support? Condoms and birth control are free within the low income demographics, abstinence has been free since the beginning of time and still is, and "DON'T GET PREGNANT" messages have been hammered at every teenager in this country for the last 50+ years. So W-T-F can admitting white privilege do to help solve this absolutely individual behavior issue?
Explain the breakdown of the black married family since 1965, and explain how that is the fault of white privilege or how ending whatever white privilege is believed to be will repair the black married family? By all means, explain how punishing me, the white guy, will make black men more responsible fathers, black women more responsible mothers, and black men and women more likely to get and stay married? I'm super curious as to how my suffering will solve this cultural problem. Please, educate me.
This and some more of this. Check the poverty rates among blacks that ARE MARRIED. Check the drop out rate for black children who live with BOTH PARENTS. Check the educational achievement of blacks who grow up with BOTH PARENTS. You'll find that married couples do better in every category, and their children all succeed much more than those in the single parent environment.
The "black community" (in quotes because I hate the entire concept of grouping according to skin color instead of culture) has the highest single mother household percentage of any racial demographic. Single mother households have exactly nothing to do with the government, white people, slavery being legal prior to 1863, geography, economics or any other factor besides INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. No "community" can solve single parent child rearing. No "community" can solve lack of commitment on the part of parents. The single most glaring problem within that racial demographic can only be solved by individuals within it acting on an individual basis. No legislation, no matter how absurdly benevolent to them or punitive towards "whites", can fix what is a problem among individuals.
Missing the boat completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
A single mother with 4 kids does have a craptastic life with very few choices to make it better. But one does not become a single mother with 4 kids because of white people, government, historical oppression, or anything else. One must have unprotected sex at least four times, carry four unborn children to term, and the father(s) of said children must choose to abandon the mother to single mother parenting.
Oh really? The breakdown of the family unit has nothing to do with incarceration rates of black teenagers? It has nothing to do with poor school systems, ghettoes, and gang violence? None of it is related?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
How the fudge are white people supposed to fix that? What can I, as a white person, do to "help" a black man who engages in drive-by procreation or "help" the single mothers who lay down for such idiots and then bear these children that my tax dollars already support? Condoms and birth control are free within the low income demographics, abstinence has been free since the beginning of time and still is, and "DON'T GET PREGNANT" messages have been hammered at every teenager in this country for the last 50+ years. So W-T-F can admitting white privilege do to help solve this absolutely individual behavior issue?
It's for ignorant conservatives that blame all their failed policies on the black community. It's for this fake sense of concern. These people have no interest in helping the black community get ahead. The problems of the black community are American problems. They are not just "black" problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Explain the breakdown of the black married family since 1965, and explain how that is the fault of white privilege or how ending whatever white privilege is believed to be will repair the black married family? By all means, explain how punishing me, the white guy, will make black men more responsible fathers, black women more responsible mothers, and black men and women more likely to get and stay married? I'm super curious as to how my suffering will solve this cultural problem. Please, educate me.
War on drugs. Prison industrial complex. Housing discrimination. Anything ringing a bell?
No such thing as White Privilege unless legislated or actively enforced by the community. While White Privilege existed during Jim Crow, What we have mostly is Majority privilege. Those that are the biggest population get the most recognition. This contrasts with White Privilege in Latin America where the White minority is overrepresented in the media. In the US, while White is seen more, minorities are actualy overrepresented in the media.
Too many people confuse burdens with privileges. A privilege is an advantage given, that is beyond what one would have if segregationary tactics weren't involved. A burden is the opposite. If a White person would get a bank loan at 10% in an all White neighborhood, and then some Blacks and Asians moved in and the Asian gets it at 10% as well, while the Black person gets it at 12%, that is a Black Burden, not a White privilege.
I constantly hear how Whites have a privilege because they can go into a store and not be followed by suspicious sales reps, or because they can hail down taxis. That is not a privilege. That is a standard. If there were twenty people out there of non Black and Non-White ancestry, and all were being ignored by Cabbies, and then one White person hailed a cab and all Cabbies stopped for him, then it would be White privilege.
The vast majority of White Americans do not have privileges. In fact, the stigma created because they supposedly have all these privileges has been exploited by the elite for centuries. First with petty privileges, during slavery, reconstruction and Jim Crow, that led to a huge divide and conquer success, and now by both race card mongers and White liberal apologist mongers alike. Race card mongers use petty perceptions of superiority to foment separatism to a disenfranchised population, and White apologists, seek to bolster their standing among Non-Whites by pointing the finger and claiming all types of supposed privileges for even the poorest Whites.
It has created a vicious circle. Who wants to grow up being vilified by the media as innately privileged, and evil, through no wrongdoing of their own? Especially when they are poor and struggling with their own burdens? White Nationalism, at its heart, is a group of people who has lost a lot of its ethnic heritage through massive multigenerational inter and intra-national migration.
Most have no idea of their roots, except for a vague European. And to celebrate that identity: Whiteness/Europeanism, is immediately branded as racism. Yet every other group is allowed to celebrate some sort of ethnic pride. Ethnic pride is not something evil if it isn't compounded with ethnocentrism, xenophobia, prejudices and scapegoatism.
But if it is not allowed to exist in a healthy state, it will exist in an unhealthy one.
You can't dam a river without an outlet.
Every White kid who is vilified growing up is a potential racist. And it has nothing to do with what his parents taught him and everything to do with a self defense mechanism from being accused every day of doing the evils that people who just happened to look like them perpetrated over a half century ago.
This is no different than White Supremacists here who blame all Blacks or all Hispanics for the misdeeds of miscreants within their group.
White Apologists are as much to blame for this vicious circle of hate, as are White Supremacists, Black Supremacists, Nation of Aztlan, etc.
Who is making it out to be an all-encompassing force?
There are some who blame all social ills on "white privilege". I suspect they're looking for losers with a victim mentality to exploit.
If you're a basically decent human being and racism keeps you from reaching your potential, that's a crappy thing we as a society need to rectify.
If you're a 40 year old with a high school diploma making minimum wage still living in your childhood bedroom, or a 24 year old who racked up a huge debt to study something frivolous and cannot advance while struggling with debt, tough ****.
No "white privilege" to blame for personal bad life choices.
No I'm not. the white privilege discussion exists to scapegoat something other than individuals for statistical differences between racial demographics. 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from Eastern and Southern Asia, as well as Jews of any ethnic/geographic background, are all more successful capita than whites. How come Stewart and O'Reilly weren't talking about Indian/Chinese/Jewish privilege? Given that one racial demographic (blunt tool that it is given the absurd number of subcultures within any racial demographic, particularly Caucasians) is being blamed for individual issues, I asked questions on how one race not having privilege will help individuals of another race make better individual decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Oh really? The breakdown of the family unit has nothing to do with incarceration rates of black teenagers? It has nothing to do with poor school systems, ghettoes, and gang violence? None of it is related?
How does incarcerating black teenage males contribute to the individual choice of bearing children out of wedlock? Would you say the legal system is more or less oppressive to blacks since 1965? The trajectory of the single mother household does not match the trajectory of incarceration rates, not for blacks or any other racial demographic. It does correspond very tightly to the trajectory of the welfare state and race based government intervention though. So close, why you could almost call it predictive.
But enlighten me on how you believe incarcerating a teenager creates single mothers. Is this where you explain how all black fathers mean well, get married before impregnating anyone, and then while child is gestating, are arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated? So the fathers of the 70% of black children are all impriosned, and that is the primary reason they are not married to the mother of their child(ren). Forget your hidden assumption that all black men in prison are innocent (implied, since you reference the black incarceration rate in a white privilege discussion), and explain how incarcerating a black male impregnates a black woman and forces her to become a single mother of multiple children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
It's for ignorant conservatives that blame all their failed policies on the black community. It's for this fake sense of concern. These people have no interest in helping the black community get ahead. The problems of the black community are American problems. They are not just "black" problems.
I am not blaming anything on anyone, rather I am refusing to blame some nebulous concept for what is clearly an individual behavior issue. How is my caucasion skin color somehow negatively impacting a single black individual? Name the negative socioeconomic factor that me having white skin inflicts upon a black person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
War on drugs. Prison industrial complex. Housing discrimination. Anything ringing a bell?
Sure, but again, prison statistics do not match the single mother household statistics. Not even close. And even if they did, you have to assume that a) all single black mothers were impregnated by felons, b) that all black felons are innocent and somehow uniquely victimized by the justice system, and c) that only the black racial demographic has this issue with prisons = pregnant, single women.
When you get done explaining how incarcerating a black teenager creates a single mother epidemic running about 70% at this point, you can then explain how married, successful black people with successful, productive black children managed what to you must be pure fudging magic since the entire nation is out to get black people, oppress them and hold them back. Did the married black folks have some form of hidden "black privilege" that allowed them to succeed? Curious.
That is a strawman. No one said it is an all powerful force.
O'Riley's tangent about working hard is a strawman argument. That tangent has nothing to do with white privilege.
I feel as though the main purpose of this post was to prove you know what a straw man argument is.
That said, plenty of people think white privilege is the the main reason for society's problems today, and that is simply not correct. It's a factor, no doubt. I'm not even denying that it exists. But race no longer connects to power. Money does (money always has, but a rich black man now can be equal to a white man but a rich black man in 1940 could not, unless he was significantly richer, I guess). An argument could be made that white privilege controls the money, and I think again, it's just a factor, and probably a smaller one once you start looking at the money aspect.
How is O'Riley's argument a straw man? Many believe that poor black people can't succeed because they're black, but the larger factor is that they are poor. And being poor can and does reduce your opportunities, but someone who is driven to succeed can succeed. Thus, working hard is a significant factor.
No such thing as White Privilege unless legislated or actively enforced by the community. While White Privilege existed during Jim Crow, What we have mostly is Majority privilege. Those that are the biggest population get the most recognition. This contrasts with White Privilege in Latin America where the White minority is overrepresented in the media. In the US, while White is seen more, minorities are actualy overrepresented in the media.
This my friends, is a desperate argument of semantics.
Thank you for proving our point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreutz
There are some who blame all social ills on "white privilege". I suspect they're looking for losers with a victim mentality to exploit.
Point them out in this thread.
If you can, I let the rest of your strawman argument slide.
I feel as though the main purpose of this post was to prove you know what a straw man argument is.
That said, plenty of people think white privilege is the the main reason for society's problems today, and that is simply not correct. It's a factor, no doubt. I'm not even denying that it exists. But race no longer connects to power. Money does (money always has, but a rich black man now can be equal to a white man but a rich black man in 1940 could not, unless he was significantly richer, I guess). An argument could be made that white privilege controls the money, and I think again, it's just a factor, and probably a smaller one once you start looking at the money aspect.
How is O'Riley's argument a straw man? Many believe that poor black people can't succeed because they're black, but the larger factor is that they are poor. And being poor can and does reduce your opportunities, but someone who is driven to succeed can succeed. Thus, working hard is a significant factor.
You basically are coming 90% of the way, then backtracking to take the conservative position.
Money and wealth connect to power. Blacks are unique as a demographic as such they have been oppressed on American soil for 400 years. White privilege is a result of our historical race problems, not the cause. History created white privilege, not the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
No I'm not. the white privilege discussion exists to scapegoat something other than individuals for statistical differences between racial demographics. 1st and 2nd generation immigrants from Eastern and Southern Asia, as well as Jews of any ethnic/geographic background, are all more successful capita than whites. How come Stewart and O'Reilly weren't talking about Indian/Chinese/Jewish privilege? Given that one racial demographic (blunt tool that it is given the absurd number of subcultures within any racial demographic, particularly Caucasians) is being blamed for individual issues, I asked questions on how one race not having privilege will help individuals of another race make better individual decisions.
Your questions are textbook of a strawman argument. Period. Individual decisions have nothing to do with white privilege. White privilege is a discussion of social biases, created by decades of history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
How does incarcerating black teenage males contribute to the individual choice of bearing children out of wedlock? Would you say the legal system is more or less oppressive to blacks since 1965? The trajectory of the single mother household does not match the trajectory of incarceration rates, not for blacks or any other racial demographic. It does correspond very tightly to the trajectory of the welfare state and race based government intervention though. So close, why you could almost call it predictive.
I'd argue there isn't as enough progress in our justice system today as compared to 1965 in regards to how it treats black men. If you can't see that, you acan't see reality. The justice system is not equal across the racial spectrum. Period. I can't make myself any more clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
But enlighten me on how you believe incarcerating a teenager creates single mothers. Is this where you explain how all black fathers mean well, get married before impregnating anyone, and then while child is gestating, are arrested, prosecuted and incarcerated? So the fathers of the 70% of black children are all impriosned, and that is the primary reason they are not married to the mother of their child(ren). Forget your hidden assumption that all black men in prison are innocent (implied, since you reference the black incarceration rate in a white privilege discussion), and explain how incarcerating a black male impregnates a black woman and forces her to become a single mother of multiple children?
Incarcerating a teenager creates a criminal record. Criminal records make it difficult (highly improbably for black males) to find employment. A deadbeat dad absolutely creates single mothers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
I am not blaming anything on anyone, rather I am refusing to blame some nebulous concept for what is clearly an individual behavior issue. How is my caucasion skin color somehow negatively impacting a single black individual? Name the negative socioeconomic factor that me having white skin inflicts upon a black person?
Where the hell did anyone blame you for impacting a single black individual? Where did anyone use that as an argument?
My goodness...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
Sure, but again, prison statistics do not match the single mother household statistics. Not even close. And even if they did, you have to assume that a) all single black mothers were impregnated by felons, b) that all black felons are innocent and somehow uniquely victimized by the justice system, and c) that only the black racial demographic has this issue with prisons = pregnant, single women.
That's because your thinking uses logical fallacies.
a) No one said all single black mothers were impregnated by felons. That isn't the argument for or against the statistics.
b) No one said all black felons are uniquely victimized by the justice system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian
When you get done explaining how incarcerating a black teenager creates a single mother epidemic running about 70% at this point, you can then explain how married, successful black people with successful, productive black children managed what to you must be pure fudging magic since the entire nation is out to get black people, oppress them and hold them back. Did the married black folks have some form of hidden "black privilege" that allowed them to succeed? Curious.
When you get done with your logical fallacies, misrepresentations of my posts, and gross generalizations, you can contribute something credible to this discussion.
Dont care for either one of em.. On a side note I do feel privileged being white
Why? We EARNED the right to be on top of the food chain through centuries of conquest and taking advantage of opportunities to control the world.
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