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Woah, talk about showing the bias of this thread as being a bunch of Angry old white male teabaggers..... Most conservative women I know are in support of this... let alone anybody not on the far right, or non-male
FTR, I am conservative and oppose paid maternity leave for all the reasons I've stated here. I don't think that companies or the government should be telling women they belong at home and paying them to stay home is a declaration that that is where they belong. This is not the governments call or the employers call. This is a personal decision and both company and the government need to stay out of our personal lives. The government staying out of our lives is a pretty conservative stance. It's liberals who want to tell us what to do by having the government pay us to do the right thing in the eyes of the government. I'm actually surprised this is even up for debate. Women staying home is not a liberal idea, it's a conservative idea but paying people to do what the government wants them to do is a liberal idea. I think this is really liberal government trying to get conservatives on their side. If you don't stop and think about the long term ramifications of allowing the government to make these decisions for us it might appear that the government is supporting conservative beliefs when reality is closer to the government controlling our personal decisions and limiting us.
I do not support the government trying to sway our decisions with money. I support the government staying the heck out of my personal life. The government needs to be concerned with things that benefit society. Whether moms work or not is irrelevant to society. One could argue that things like day care subsidies make sense because the government benefits from having more people in the work force and the need for day care creates jobs but employers also benefit from having trained employees stay in the work force instead of leave so I'd expect companies to address this issue to keep them in the work place. Also while whether or not mom works is irrelevant, the quality of day care is not. The quality of available day care does make a difference so society has a vested interest in making sure high quality day care is available for those who need it. Society has no horse in the race when it comes to moms staying home though. If anything that is bad for society (reduces family income which reduces spending, reduces tax revenues, does not create jobs).
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-14-2014 at 01:31 PM..
The bias against women that results from pregnancy and leaves will not go away until it becomes just as likely that men will take a long leave as a woman. While 33% of men may take some form of leave, how long of leave are they taking? 2 weeks? 6 weeks? 6 months? It matters.
Where I used to work it was normal for men to take a couple of days to a couple of weeks when their wives had babies but the women took several weeks to several months leave. Taking a few days or weeks off when a child is born is viewed differently than taking months off when a child is born.
The average was 17 weeks in 2006. It's more now. I'll try to find some current data.
The average was 17 weeks in 2006. It's more now. I'll try to find some current data.
That is impressive if men are taking long leaves but it's still twice as likely that women will take leaves and I have to ask how this compares to the length of leave for mothers.
When we get to 50% of fathers taking leave and that leave being just as long as the leaves taken by women, we'll have a shot at equality here.
Could you please post your source for the average male leave being 17 weeks. That does surprise me. I was in industry in 2006 and did not see men taking longer than a few weeks after their wives gave birth.
That is impressive if men are taking long leaves but it's still twice as likely that women will take leaves and I have to ask how this compares to the length of leave for mothers.
When we get to 50% of fathers taking leave and that leave being just as long as the leaves taken by women, we'll have a shot at equality here.
Could you please post your source for the average male leave being 17 weeks. That does surprise me. I was in industry in 2006 and did not see men taking longer than a few weeks after their wives gave birth.
You're not in Canada.
Sure thing.
The situation outside Quebec is reversed—among fathers who claimed, the average time off actually rose from 11 weeks in 2005 to 17 weeks in 2006, representing almost half of the parental leave time available. This relatively long duration likely arose because more than half of claiming fathers outside Quebec were the sole claimant in the household. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-.../10639-eng.htm
Sure thing.
The situation outside Quebec is reversed—among fathers who claimed, the average time off actually rose from 11 weeks in 2005 to 17 weeks in 2006, representing almost half of the parental leave time available. This relatively long duration likely arose because more than half of claiming fathers outside Quebec were the sole claimant in the household. Perspectives on Labour and Income: Fathers' use of paid parental leave
Well, we are discussing the US. Canada already has paid leave. This would be more argument not to pay for leaves since they are not equally being used by men and women. It would appear that twice as many women use the leave (and we still don't know the average length of women's leaves) than men which does nothing to alleviate the bias against women because they use leave more even if they also average 17 weeks (unless they average 8.5 weeks but I'm not sure employers could get past the twice as likely to use it part even if this were true.).
If you could convince me that paying for leaves would result in both parents being just as likely to take leave AND take the same amount of time then it might be worth it because that could lead to eliminating the gender bias. As long as women and men behave differently when they become parents we will have a gender bias WRT this issue. I'm not in favor of making it worse and I think paid leaves would. I think women would be even more likely to stay home than they are now even if more men made that choice. We need it to be just as likely dad will take off as mom and take just as much time as mom.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-14-2014 at 03:15 PM..
Well, we are discussing the US. Canada already has paid leave. This would be more argument not to pay for leaves since they are not equally being used by men and women. It would appear that twice as many women use the leave (and we still don't know the average length of women's leaves) than men which does nothing to alleviate the bias against women because they use leave more even if they also average 17 weeks (unless they average 8.5 weeks but I'm not sure employers could get past the twice as likely to use it part even if this were true.).
If you could convince me that paying for leaves would result in both parents being just as likely to take leave AND take the same amount of time then it might be worth it because that could lead to eliminating the gender bias. As long as women and men behave differently when they become parents we will have a gender bias WRT this issue. I'm not in favor of making it worse and I think paid leaves would. I think women would be even more likely to stay home than they are now even if more men made that choice. We need it to be just as likely dad will take off as mom and take just as much time as mom.
Our leaves are available equally to mothers and fathers. I really don't care how they split it up between themselves.
That being said, longer leaves make for happier, healthier and more stable families.
I thought that the "family values" crowd would be supportive of more stable families, but I guess i was mistaken.
Carry on.
Our leaves are available equally to mothers and fathers. I really don't care how they split it up between themselves.
That being said, longer leaves make for happier, healthier and more stable families.
I thought that the "family values" crowd would be supportive of more stable families, but I guess i was mistaken.
Carry on.
Yeah. I'm just glad I live in a country where I can take up to 12-24 months leave,(currently 18 weeks paid) and be secure in the knowledge that my job will be available for me when I return to work.
USA the only western/industrial country in the world with no mandatory.....
- Universal healthcare
- Paid/Unpaid holidays
- Paid/Unpaid sick days
- Paid/Unpaid vacation
- Paid maternity leave (90 days of unpaid leave under 'FMLA' if company has 50+ employees).
USA is truly the worst western country in the world when it comes to family/life balance and labor laws and protection.... So sad! Republicans should be ashamed, as should corporates and the congress! Wealthy people the only one's who are lucky and could afford staying home! :/
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sorry I don't agree with you on this one...
it is your choice to become pregnant...yours....so you take a job and get paid maternity leave? Why? The company has to have someone else come in your job for the duration, and/or, double your department's employees up with your work for that duration....how is that fair and right to the company, and to your fellow employees...to get paid for a choice that you've made that is going to require you being out of work for 90 days?
No, that is so wrong....
and another example of entitlement....
however, if NJ feels that it is right to give illegals financial aide to those who wish to go to college, then I can understand, but am not for either but, people keep expecting more and more free be's on the tax payer's money....and that is so wrong.
Sweden provides 18 months with 80% paid maternity leave!!!!!
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