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Old 12-22-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,154,780 times
Reputation: 15545

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
But it does set a precedent..and public pensions and SS are on the back burners don't forget.
And the FDIC that covers bank accounts.
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,154,780 times
Reputation: 15545
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
People did NOT put their money into this. These are not defined contribution plans.
They put their money into it.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
They put their money into it.
No they didn't. They have defined benefit plans. The employer contributed the money. They contributed nothing.

You might be thinking of a defined contribution plan in which both the employer and the employee contribute.

Unusual victory for unions: Pension reform | WashingtonExaminer.com
Multi-employer plans are defined benefit pension funds that multiple businesses pool their resources into.


Defined-Benefit Plan Definition | Investopedia
DEFINITION OF 'DEFINED-BENEFIT PLAN'
An employer-sponsored retirement plan where employee benefits are sorted out based on a formula using factors such as salary history and duration of employment. Investment risk and portfolio management are entirely under the control of the company.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,975 posts, read 47,615,131 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoilers4me View Post
You mean to tell me D x 201 couldn't each read 20 pages and give each other a head's up if something egregious was about to be snuck in? And R x 234 were unable to each read 17 pages?

I knew the bar was low but for $174,000 a year, I guess I expected a little more.
And how long would it take to give 201 briefings? More or less 201 hours maybe?

Your idea would guarantee they'd be voting on a bill they never read. Rand Paul said they should be given one day per 25 pages. How low is that bar in your view? I think it's a good idea.
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:15 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,968,141 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Of course it's about money. You complain the government is not bailing out pension companies. How will the government quarantee people get 100% benefits without money?
What is this "pension companies" thing you are talking about?

Pensions are provided by EMPLOYERS. They are funded by and operated by those employers.

There is nobody in the business of "pensions".
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:16 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,968,141 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Taratova, Unions priced themselves into their tragic free fall position. Obama had nothing to do with that, nor should he stop it. Free market worked, unions overprice themselves, corps seek more economical means of production.
You seem to forget that not just corporations, but EVERYONE seeks more economical means of doing things... Except for government, of course. It uses the most expensive and wasteful ways of doing things.
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:44 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,966,662 times
Reputation: 7315
In this case, by not propping up pensions, the gov't is acting prudently.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
33,571 posts, read 18,154,780 times
Reputation: 15545
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
No they didn't. They have defined benefit plans. The employer contributed the money. They contributed nothing.

You might be thinking of a defined contribution plan in which both the employer and the employee contribute.

Unusual victory for unions: Pension reform | WashingtonExaminer.com
Multi-employer plans are defined benefit pension funds that multiple businesses pool their resources into.


Defined-Benefit Plan Definition | Investopedia
DEFINITION OF 'DEFINED-BENEFIT PLAN'
An employer-sponsored retirement plan where employee benefits are sorted out based on a formula using factors such as salary history and duration of employment. Investment risk and portfolio management are entirely under the control of the company.
The worker earned that benefit and because of that benefit that money was not put into their paycheck but into their pension for them to have a retirement check paid to them each month. Because of my career background I have seen documents stating that each union employee has money invested through their employment.

It is earned and the payment of that was placed there because they joined that union ,paid union dues and attended the meetings. Their employer placed that earned benefit into the pension fund month after month , year after year instead of in their paychecks directly. It is an earned benefit.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
The worker earned that benefit and because of that benefit that money was not put into their paycheck but into their pension for them to have a retirement check paid to them each month. Because of my career background I have seen documents stating that each union employee has money invested through their employment.

It is earned and the payment of that was placed there because they joined that union ,paid union dues and attended the meetings. Their employer placed that earned benefit into the pension fund month after month , year after year instead of in their paychecks directly. It is an earned benefit.
Sure it's earned. But the employee did not contribute to it.
And employer pension funds are never guaranteed and can be changed, ended, modified at any point in time.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Ohio
2,801 posts, read 2,309,108 times
Reputation: 1654
I stopped reading past the first page ... I guess I lot missed the CONGRESS PASSED part ....

I figure some have no clue what this is all about either, MANY of the funds do NOT have the liquidity to pay benefits under the current structure, I(along with other workers) from a previous job received a letter stating the fund is seriously underfunding and will not be able to pay the benefits we thought and we won't know how much less until it's time to retire, the government has a guarantee program in place, If I can dig up the letter I will post what it says.
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