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She didnt say anything different than the guy who was on FOX NEWS saturday morning who said that ISIS gained a foothold because they were able to provide basic services that the government could not, with him specifically mentioning High speed internet and no one at FOX said anything negative about him in fact, the 3 cohost and the other guest agreed with him.
So I ask you, which one sounds more plausible.
" ISIS gained a foothold because they promised to get everyone high speed internet" or ISIS gained a foothold because they promised they would create opportunity for the people in the area so that they could support their families " ??
Yup.
Violent religious fundamentalism is strong in the middle east because THEY tend to be charities. The states of the mid east don't really take care of their poor. Instead they leave it up to charities. That's all well and good except that religious charities - even here in the U.S. - tend to use their "captive audience" (having a free meal or whatever) to preach to. "Rescue missions" here in the U.S. do and Muslim charities in the mid east do it too- and mid east radical group have grown savvy to the idea that they can use such charities as recruitment centers. So, in an environment where your government does nothing to help you, but your religious leaders do - who are you going to have loyalty to?
The State Department spokeswoman was RIGHT ON TARGET. Poverty is the root of the problem in the Middle East - NOT the religion.
Locations with high unemployment pretty much always have higher levels of crime an violence (and that is the case with Yuma).
Crime may be higher in Yuma, but you don't see the beheadings and mass burnings of people because of their religion (based on statements from ISIS - not me). A kid in Yuma or anywhere else, may be likely to be recruited into a gang or something because they have few options, but what we are seeing is a different thing because what they are being recruited into is a warped sense of religion that advocates mass burnings instead of selling crack and stealing a car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor
And the UE rate in Yuma is DWARFED by that in (for example) Egypt. Youth unemployment in Egypt is about 40%. In addition, the unemployed in the US are NOWHERE NEAR as destitute, desperate (and thus angry) and those in Egypt.
It's not really about religion, it's about economics.
Ken
Then why aren't we seeing as much of it in Egypt? What differentiates the the rest of the poor in the area from the ones doing this stuff? The difference is their particular brand of "Islam" tells them to do this. Why would I think you and a few others know more about why ISIS does something than ISIS themselves?
Crime may be higher in Yuma, but you don't see the beheadings and mass burnings of people because of their religion (based on statements from ISIS - not me). A kid in Yuma or anywhere else, may be likely to be recruited into a gang or something because they have few options, but what we are seeing is a different thing because what they are being recruited into is a warped sense of religion that advocates mass burnings instead of selling crack and stealing a car.
Then why aren't we seeing as much of it in Egypt? What differentiates the the rest of the poor in the area from the ones doing this stuff? The difference is their particular brand of "Islam" tells them to do this. Why would I think you and a few others know more about why ISIS does something than ISIS themselves?
That's because WE don't have the grinding poverty that Egypt does, in part because WE have a state that takes care of the poor rather than leaving it to some religious organization that may have ulterior motives.
If WE had poverty like they do in the Mid East, we'd have all kinds of social disruptions - much of it very, very violent.
The mid-east problems stem from poverty, NOT from religion. Life is cheap and violence is everywhere when people are desperate and feel they have nothing to lose - hence the difference between relatively crime free and stable Muslim Singapore and the crime-ridden and unstable Muslim middle-east.
BOTH are Muslim, but one is fairly wealthy while the other is desperately poor.
That's because WE don't have the grinding poverty that Egypt does, in part because WE have a state that takes care of the poor rather than leaving it to some religious organization that may have ulterior motives.
If WE had poverty like they do in the Mid East, we'd have all kinds of social disruptions - much of it very, very violent.
The mid-east problems stem from poverty, NOT from religion. Life is cheap and violence is everywhere when people are desperate and feel they have nothing to lose - hence the difference between relatively crime free and stable Muslim Singapore and the crime-ridden and unstable Muslim middle-east.
BOTH are Muslim, but one is fairly wealthy while the other is desperately poor.
Ken
In the Muslim Mid East, the ones who are violent to this level claim a particular brand of Islam and they stand out from the rest of the poor middle easterners. The same goes for distinguishing violent poor from non-violent poor in the Phillipines, Nigeria etc. The common thread is a barbaric interpretation of their religion. When you factor in that similar interpretations lead people in control of countries, certainly not poor people, to brutalize others, you have to start considering their beliefs.
In the Muslim Mid East, the ones who are violent to this level claim a particular brand of Islam and they stand out from the rest of the poor middle easterners. The same goes for distinguishing violent poor from non-violent poor in the Phillipines, Nigeria etc. The common thread is a barbaric interpretation of their religion. When you factor in that similar interpretations lead people in control of countries, certainly not poor people, to brutalize others, you have to start considering their beliefs.
That's because those leaders are the worst of the worst - just as all those "Christian" NAZI Europeans were the worst of the worst - but those people would be nothing if not for their desperate foot soldiers willing to be cannon fodder. Right now the middle east has lots of such desperate potential foot soldiers - just as Germany did when the NAZIs took power and unleashed a reign of terror.
Again, it all comes down to economics.
The ONLY solution is to withdraw from the entire area and let them do what they have been doing for centuries. This fight is not win-able which has been proven over and over again.
Not just the US, but every other country trying to fight them. We all withdraw, contain the situations on our own soil. We continue to poke the hornets nest and the fight will eventually come here which will leave us no choice but to fight fire with fire.
The people that speak on behalf of John Kerry are naive and immature and make Kerry look dumber than he really is and that a good feat. Psaki and Harf are a disgrace to the entire State Department.
That's because those leaders are the worst of the worst - just as all those "Christian" NAZI Europeans were the worst of the worst - but those people would be nothing if not for their desperate foot soldiers willing to be cannon fodder. Right now the middle east has lots of such desperate potential foot soldiers - just as Germany did when the NAZIs took power and unleashed a reign of terror.
Again, it all comes down to economics.
Ken
Okay, so when it's the poor Muslim's of this sect doing it, it's because they're poor, and when it's not the poor, it's just because they're the worst? We can't consider the common thread that's running through the wealthy and the poor doing the same thing?
I can show plenty of places full of poor people not acting this way. Can you show me groups full of people with the same religious beliefs that aren't - not Muslim, this brand of Muslim?
Okay, so when it's the poor Muslim's of this sect doing it, it's because they're poor, and when it's not the poor, it's just because they're the worst? We can't consider the common thread that's running through the wealthy and the poor doing the same thing?
I can show plenty of places full of poor people not acting this way. Can you show me groups full of people with the same religious beliefs that aren't - not Muslim, this brand of Muslim?
Well first you have to specify which "brand of Muslim" you think ISIS is. And what "brand of Muslim" even means.
I'll assume you meant Sunni, and I would respond with: Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan. Kazakstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Morocco, Western Sahara, Mauritania, Senegal, Gambia, Jordan, Turkey, Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia.
In fact over 60% of Muslims live in Asia, and while they have some problems, they are minimal outside of Pakistan. We're talking about a subset of a subset.
As others have pointed out though, theres some cultural and religious issues that cause issues as well. However everything really does come down to people having hope, work, etc.
Care to explain to us how the Tsarnaev brothers didn't have hope?
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