The Chinese Invasion of America (radical, March, abortion, voters)

[dechatelet]

Originally Posted by qworldorder

So we're simply a white country that speaks English? That is our national identity? And all other 'minority' identities are moot?

Not moot. They count, too.

But yes, we are still largely a white country that speaks English.

And there is no more reason for us to change than there is for other countries to change, which -- interestingly enough -- they choose not to do.

Sorry if that disturbs you.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by bmexman

I have never said that English is under threat. I am saying that people who choose not to speak English choose not to participate in "our society," which is mainstream American society. The consequence of not participating in mainstream society is permanent divisiveness, which goes against the principles of what this country was founded on - "Out of Many, One."

If another language besides English was to expand into mainstream use, becoming the dominant language of a region or people of this country then we will see a situation like in Quebec, in Spain with Catalan and Basque separatist movements, or in Belgium whose politics have been marked by the battle between Dutch-speaking and French-speaking Belgians.

I never generalized all Chinese immigrants, Chinese Americans, or ethnic Chinese in general. The majority of Chinese immigrants and Chinese-Americans I have met and known in my lifetime are upstanding, upwardly mobile assets to this country. I only commented on this latest wave of China's wealthy and entitled only using the United States for their own benefit, and not necessarily for the benefit of our country who hosts them.

I am hardly the only one who shares this view - get this, even other ethnic Chinese are reviled by these entitled wealthy mainlanders! One only needs to read the comments section of articles in the South China Morning Post, Hong Kong's premier newspaper, when an article about mainlanders comes up. And even in this country, American-born Chinese Americans thumb their noses at these "entitled fobs" and refuse to associate with them.

By naming a thread 'The Chinese Invasion of America', that's a bit generalizing, no? It isn't named 'The Non-Assimilation to American culture by New, Rich Chinese', after all. Never mind the general 'Chinese' bit, which you say you didn't intend to stereotype. The 'Invasion' part is pretty inflammatory rhetoric, no? That's strong language, usually reserved for actual war incursions, and where I think the xenophobic charges from our side originate.

As far as the English under threat part, that is the implication given to me and several others through your initial post. You yourself said "They do NOT assimilate as the earlier waves of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Hong Kong immigrants did", "because I heard Mandarin out of their mouths, not English". The implication here being that this new wave isn't assimilating because they don't speak English, and thus, English will be under assault if we do nothing. If this was not your intent, then you could have phrased your first paragraph better.

Further, I think the other thing that myself and other posters take issue with is how do YOU know they're not assimilating like other waves? You haven't given any evidence outside of your own personal anecdotes. You haven't even tried to communicate with them, unless you just left this out. You've just stated that YOU felt like you were at the University of Beijing. How are we to find this 'invasion' credible if it just seems like the ramblings of a non-Chinese citizen with no foot in the culture? And how are we to believe they won't eventually learn English when literally every other wave of every other group has?

Lastly, the other part of your initial post that has riled feathers is your condemnation of their wealth. You claim it to be an entitlement complex that doesn't belong here in this country. What me and other posters are disagreeing with is that this country prides itself on capitalism, 'the almighty dollar'; to condemn this new wave for their wealth seems un-American. Wealth in and of itself isn't bad--I would think it better to have wealthy immigrants than poor ones, no? Your argument holds more weight as far as the 'flashy' aspect of their wealth, and I can see how this is valid, though it isn't just this new wave of Chinese--it's a significant portion of 'American' culture at large. For your part, you did address this in a subsequent post that you don't care for 'anybody' to be flashy. I can respect that opinion. It just seemed that you unfairly denounced an entire ethnic/national group through your initial language when you could have been more selective in your descriptions.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by banjomike

meh.
They come here because they want to be like us. And if they stay long enough, they become us.
Every newcomer wants a flashy car if they have never owned any car at all. Big deal.

And every immigrant group who has ever came ashore has been viewed with deep suspicion. EVery single one of them as been called sneaky and deceiving.

In time, they all get their priorities straightened out. Some family money sticks around, some family money doesn't. We don't think twice about seeing an old long-established Anglo family's kid driving around in a Carerra. In fact, they are the only ones I've ever seen driving them in my neck of the woods, while I know plenty of Chinese folks who were former residents of Communist China here, working their butts off to pay the rent while voting Republican as full fledged American citizens and damned proud of it.

That's the real phenomena. Most of those folks I know had to pass through North Korea to get to South Korea to finally come here, and none of it was easy, cheap, or simple. They are just like some German folks I know who had to do similar drastic things to leave where they were to live out their lives here in an earlier time.

The rich always have it easier in all things than the poor, and there are always more poor than rich. Neither is ever trusted at first, no matter where they came from.

Good analysis. There's a lot of selective condemnation on this thread, despite plenty of historical and present examples to the contrary.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

So Belgium and Canada aren't unified countries? Separatism is still a major issue?

Every country has a common language. Where I disagree with you is that countries can still thrive and be unified by having more than one. Multi-lingual societies aren't doomed to failure. A unifying culture can be bigger than just language. See Belgium, Canada, China.

Southern conservatives HAD slaves and DID lynch blacks. Quit playing word games. And currently, southern conservatives are fighting to deny gay marriage.

Again with the semantic word games. Yes, there were 'nations' of people who were here FIRST before Europeans immigrated here. This is fact. Quit with the revisionism.

This is more semantic sidestepping from you. The 'distinction' you speak of between the first immigrants/settlers and subsequent immigrants is irrelevant, and largely arbitrary, if there were already natives here. Which there were. Everyone who isn't a Native American is an immigrant to these lands. To include the 'settlers' and subsequent 'Americans'.

And I suspect that you feel it's only appropriate to venerate the 'good' parts of American history, and to skip/cut out the 'bad' parts. Because all the 'bad' parts are clearly 'anti-white', to you. Never mind the fact that they actually HAPPENED. No desired narrative whatsoever. This is just a good example of how conservatives are so ignorant and delusional when it comes to the actual history of this country. And liberals are the touchy and overly sensitive ones? Tell that to the idiots in Oklahoma banning AP History. This isn't racism, this is fact. Nothing racist about it. And not every country was formed in that manner. But even if every one was, what's your point? That the 'settlers' should somehow get a pass, and we shouldn't teach that? Yea, ok...

Dodging having to do any thought-provoking analysis and relying on clichéd name-calling? Sounds about right from you.

More name-calling. Yawn. And still contradicting yourself. Europe is interesting because it's multicultural and hasn't succumbed to multiculturalism. Huh? You don't make sense. Preserving unique traditions (i.e. cultures) in close proximity is the very definition of multiculturalism.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

Your hatred of whites is showing.

In the 1960s, the United States was about 85% white non-hispanic. Now it's about 62% white non-hispanic. So non-hispanic whites haven't exactly been resisting immigration by non-whites and hispanics. The U.S. is unprecedented in its willingness to become multi-racial and multi-cultural. And yet all you can do is rag on the non-hispanic whites who allowed that to happen. Do you think Japanese would welcome non-Japanese, Mexicans non-Mexicans, Indians non-Indians? There is a lot of racism and ethnocentrism in the world, and the great majority of it is from non-whites.

You're also wrong about where the majority of whites live. They live in metro areas that include most non-whites.

It's also pretty clear that you know nothing about small-town white America. Simply because it votes Republican, you assume that it is racist and ignorant.

Actually, the racists and uneducated fools (unless you call left wing propaganda "education," which it isn't) in this country are in the blue states and vote for Democrats.

No hatred of whites, here. Though I suspect that YOU have a problem with honest discussions about our nation's history and race relations.

Are you kidding about not resisting immigration? Non-Hispanic whites, namely conservatives, have been the biggest resistors of immigration. Tea Party rallies anyone? If they had their way, we wouldn't have what we have now. I'm not ragging on white people--quit trying to paint me as anti-white. I am ragging on conservatives, who have historically held and presently hold, anti-immigration attitudes. The fact that anti-immigrant conservatives tend to be white is an interesting coincidence, though.

Would Japan welcome non-Japanese like we have? No, but Japan has NEVER claimed to be a society welcome to immigrants like we have. Lol, are you still going to downplay that New Colossus poem? Furthermore, Japan could actually use to lighten up their immigration policies, as their country population and economy is currently declining. But that's up to the Japanese. Here in America, we've already made our choice (and look how we're emulated in Australia, the UK, France, etc.). And as far as ethnocentrism and racism, that's up for debate. How do you quantify that? By number of foreign countries conquered/people killed and/or enslaved? It's a silly argument to have and I won't devolve to that level.

The majority of whites may live in metro areas with non-whites, but they do not live among them. America is still very much clearly segregated on racial lines, between city and suburb, and between ethnic neighborhoods. I just pointed out that the most racially integrated metros in this country all vote Democrat. Wonder why? Furthermore, why isn't small-town white America more diverse? You would think lower taxes and COL would be a big incentive to flee the cities. Maybe the ideology is off-putting to minorities? Or the historical behaviors of small town residents?

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

I'm sorry that it bothers you so much that the United States was founded by European white males and that it has only begun to be significantly influenced in its mainstream culture by non-whites and women.

Boo-hoo.

I guess Disney should have been putting non-whites on its TV channel 100 years ago, and women's lib should have happened before the war of 1812.

And while we're bean counting, why the dearth of Asian entertainers?

Ok, mark that one down for the grudge list.

Nothing more defines us as a nation than our history, and it is clear that that history offends you.

Again, boo hoo.

If I were as offended as you are, I would seriously consider leaving and going somewhere else.

More name calling. Yawn. I'm sorry that it bothers you so much that this country has a history that also includes the perspectives and contributions of non-European white males. It is clear that those other histories offend you. If I were as offended as you are, I would seriously consider leaving and going somewhere else. You're clearly in the wrong country if you have issues with multiculturalism and diversity.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

And thus you show that you are not to be taken seriously.

As if I should have to learn the languages other people speak (in this case, Spanish and Filipino) instead of expecting them to speak English when we're at work in a major U.S. corporation in the United States.

And thus you continue to show your ignorance and insensitivity. As if you should have to learn to communicate with and respect others when at work in a major U.S. corporation in the United States.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

An example that you cherry pick and give the most importance to.

Again, you are full of it.

I'm cherry picking? You're literally denying one of the greatest, indisputable symbols of American culture (The New Colossus poem on the Statue of Liberty) because it doesn't fit your (false) narrative that this isn't a country of and for immigrants. Which is so ridiculous I don't even know where to begin.

Again, you are full of it.

[qworldorder]

Originally Posted by dechatelet

Not moot. They count, too.

But yes, we are still largely a white country that speaks English.

And there is no more reason for us to change than there is for other countries to change, which -- interestingly enough -- they choose not to do.

Sorry if that disturbs you.

Ok, so they do count. But what happens when those 'minorities' become the majority, as is currently under way? When we're no longer a 'white' country that speaks English, but a multi-racial country that predominately speaks English, and a few other languages? Will we no longer be American? Is our identity simply based on race and language?

And there may be no 'reason' for us to change (at least to you; I disagree), but you can't deny that it's happening. And not just here, but in plenty of other countries (the UK, France, Spain, etc.). So now what?

Sorry if reality and/or critical thinking disturbs you.

[Packard fan]

Originally Posted by qworldorder

So why do conservatives want to deny immigrants (Chinese, Mexicans, etc) the freedom and opportunity to achieve the American Dream? This whole thread is a rant on those who should, in theory, have the right to come here.

Italians historically immigrated here to the United States en masse. You don't think any of them came here just to establish citizenship here (anchor babies) and return when things got better? Italian Americans never sent money back to Italy, returned back to Italy, or 'played both sides of the fence'?

As far as the English issue, why do you feel it's under threat if a couple of college students don't speak it right away? You never gave any insight into this reasoning, and instead, you generalized an entire immigrant community that you admit to having little access to. Yet, given all evidence to the contrary (immigrant groups like the Amish, East LA Mexicans and Cajuns speaking English), you insist that the Chinese immigrants don't/won't learn English.

Italians: word was 1 in 3 DID go back home almost 100 years ago because life in the US wasn't for them. Too; almost all Italians came here LEGALLY because it's hard to jump an ocean to get to the US.