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Old 08-11-2015, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,262,910 times
Reputation: 2416

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Yea whatever buddy.
Of course, no one knows what's going to happen to the United States over the next 239 years. In the meantime, go and peruse the "Blowback Trilogy" by the late Chalmers Johnson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalme...lowback_series
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,730,715 times
Reputation: 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Considering the inevitable fate of all great "empires," itʻs only a matter of time before the "American empire" crumbles. Of course, it might take another 239 years or so for it to happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_collapse
no chance, the US is the first almost purely market-based society. Our civilization will adapt to any situation as it happens because someone will find a way to make money and everyone will follow. If there's no way out for the US then that means there's no way out for the world and we're all toast anyways
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:19 AM
 
13,651 posts, read 20,788,575 times
Reputation: 7653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Of course, no one knows what's going to happen to the United States over the next 239 years. In the meantime, go and peruse the "Blowback Trilogy" by the late Chalmers Johnson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalme...lowback_series
Apparently you do know.
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,243,258 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawena View Post
it became as you say a shiet ho.... when the US came and over threw the HKG when has the US ever made anyplace better? they took a shiet on the native americans.. Iraq... Afganistan... the list goes on...


we could rent out those nice military bases that the US built to the highest bigger... we could always make money off of gambling.... Hawaii could also be a tax heaven... you know how you all hate paying taxes..
If Hawaii left the union it would in short order begin to resemble Western Samoa or Fiji. Due to limited natural resources your state has to import almost everything. Including water, which there is not enough of to maintain the current population the state has. Unless you are willing to see a massive drop in the quality of lifestyle that you lead, you are going to want to stay in the union.

Why would the US pay the Hawaiian government money to maintain its bases when we already have Guam?
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Old 08-11-2015, 11:46 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,112,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
If Hawaii left the union it would in short order begin to resemble Western Samoa or Fiji. Due to limited natural resources your state has to import almost everything. Including water, which there is not enough of to maintain the current population the state has. Unless you are willing to see a massive drop in the quality of lifestyle that you lead, you are going to want to stay in the union.

Why would the US pay the Hawaiian government money to maintain its bases when we already have Guam?
Logic and facts don't work with these people ... they think an independent Hawaii would morph into Singapore if only they could get rid of the evil Haoles
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:29 PM
 
847 posts, read 767,401 times
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The Self Determination right of people has never been used against a great power.
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Old 08-11-2015, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,262,910 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
no chance, the US is the first almost purely market-based society. Our civilization will adapt to any situation as it happens because someone will find a way to make money and everyone will follow. If there's no way out for the US then that means there's no way out for the world and we're all toast anyways
Folks in the U.S.S.R. believed that their economic system was adaptable as well. It dissolved, and the world's still here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissol...e_Soviet_Union

Considering that the leadership of China has figured out ways to make money at the expense of the United States, it's not that difficult to see the writing on the wall as some leading international relations experts have prognosticated...
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...nd-future-west
The Rise of China and the Interests of the U.S. - Council on Foreign Relations
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/48c84460-d...#axzz3iYBb3F9h

Beijing only 240 miles further from Honolulu than Washington, D.C. and it appears that the Chinese government is quite cognizant of that fact and willing to take advantage of some folks in the Hawaiian sovereignty movement.
China threatens to arm Hawaii separatists who want kingdom - Washington Times
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,262,910 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Apparently you do know.
I do know that a lot can happen in the span of 239 years -- e.g. the founding of the United States, the "discovery" of Hawaiʻi by European countries, the rise and fall of the Hawaiian monarchy, a U.S. Civil War, two World Wars, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the rise and fall of the Soviet Union, the "War on Terrorism," the rise of ISIS, etc. The continued status of the United States as a world "superpower" is not necessarily guaranteed for the next 239 years. History might show that the presidencies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama heralded the decline of the United States...
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:40 PM
 
Location: New York City
19,061 posts, read 12,730,715 times
Reputation: 14783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Folks in the U.S.S.R. believed that their economic system was adaptable as well. It dissolved, and the world's still here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissol...e_Soviet_Union
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part about where the USSR was a market economy and fundamentally capitalist society from cradle to grave
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Old 08-11-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,262,910 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
I'm sorry, I guess I missed the part about where the USSR was a market economy and fundamentally capitalist society from cradle to grave
You missed it, because it wasn't mentioned (on purpose). The point is the "belief in the adaptability" of a particular economic system, not the "type" of economic system. Nice attempt at going for a "straw man" fallacy...
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