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I definitely agree about white knights. I also think that the idea of patriarchy is completely false, and that women have (and have had in the past) a lot more power than people realize. There's a lot of confirmation bias in modern feminism. I think both men and women imagine life without the opposite sex being much easier than it actually is, but that's especially true for women.
One of the best things I've heard on the topic is that men and women will come together in times of crisis, because both can help each other when the going is rough. When everything is going smoothly and there's more prosperity, they don't need each other as much. He then said something along the lines of "but with the whole feminist movement, when the next crisis hits, you better bet they'll be looking to men for help...and we should respond with 'I'm glad to help, but not before we get an apology.'"
Powerful men, aka - "The Patriarchy" to which feminists refer, are some of the most cowardly, anti-male beings on the planet. Most male politicians will say or do anything to appease women. For what reason? To get re-elected. Men are thrown under the bus constantly to appease women. These men are spineless and a detriment to all men. Both women and white knights are notorious for denigrating men that stand up for other men - hence the feminist/white knight hatred of MRAs and MGTOWs. To these folks, "you're not a real man" unless your kissing women's behinds. It's perfectly fine if women reject their traditional role - but God help the man that rejects his.
For example, there's a big push by feminists to remove men's rights to presumption of innocence and due process over regret-sex in college - meaning that if a woman gets drunk, has sex and later regrets it, she can claim 'non-agency' and have the offending man expelled from college. I'm sure you've heard of it. It's called "yes means yes" or "affirmative consent". No sooner was the bill passed in CA that feminists started pushing to have the law upped to the criminal justice level. "Yes Means Yes" allows women to make allegations of sexual assault or rape without reporting it to law enforcement. Instead of law enforcement handling the alleged crime, the charge is made at the college level, where the anti-male, college kangaroo courts are empowered to remove men's rights to know his accuser, the charge against him, the right to present evidence in his defense and the right to an attorney - giving the college carte blanche to expel the accused through the accusation alone. Both conservatives and progressives got behind the idea because of the dreaded "hook up culture" - even though the law was supposed to stop the entirely made up, feminist-inspired "rape culture". Fortunately, the courts have been favoring the expelled males, allowing massive law suits against the colleges on the grounds of violation of constitutional rights. This and only this forced congress to come up with a bill that forces colleges to report allegations of sexual assault and rape to law enforcement, effectively nullifying "Yes Means Yes". It's called "The Safe Campus Act". What's disturbing about the whole thing is that this "law" was allowed to proliferate mostly by anti-male males - AKA White Knights - to appease the man hating feminist demands.
Society enforced the idea of men being the providers and protectors and women being the homemakers and caregivers - NOT MEN. Women loved it when it was in their best interests for society to operate this way. Why? Because it enforced male disposability. In this golden era of "equality" you still see shaming tactics by the main stream media and religious organizations to denigrate men that protect themselves from physical assault by women or to dehumanize men that don't risk their lives for women's benefit. The idea that men are the providers and protectors of women needs to go away as does the idea that it was mainly men that came up with this paradigm. Women, throughout history, have used shaming tactics and emasculation to enforce the anti-male culture the permeates everything today. There are sites dedicated to exposing this most made up of feminist myths. One such site is gynocentrism.com.
“Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” – Hillary Clinton
To Hilary, that men lose their lives in war isn't the cause for concern. After all - they're just men. It's women who primarily suffer. This is how white knights and feminists think. It's always about women and their imperatives - no matter how many men's lives have to be sacrificed.
There's an excellent UTube video by Spetsnaz called "The Disposable Male" that covers all this in great detail.
I think it's great you guys aren't marrying. Where you lose me is why you need a movement to give you permission. No one other than perhaps your mothers care what you do with your lives. Seriously.
Powerful men, aka - "The Patriarchy" to which feminists refer, are some of the most cowardly, anti-male beings on the planet. Most male politicians will say or do anything to appease women. For what reason? To get re-elected. Men are thrown under the bus constantly to appease women. These men are spineless and a detriment to all men. Both women and white knights are notorious for denigrating men that stand up for other men - hence the feminist/white knight hatred of MRAs and MGTOWs. To these folks, "you're not a real man" unless your kissing women's behinds. It's perfectly fine if women reject their traditional role - but God help the man that rejects his.
For example, there's a big push by feminists to remove men's rights to presumption of innocence and due process over regret-sex in college - meaning that if a woman gets drunk, has sex and later regrets it, she can claim 'non-agency' and have the offending man expelled from college. I'm sure you've heard of it. It's called "yes means yes" or "affirmative consent". No sooner was the bill passed in CA that feminists started pushing to have the law upped to the criminal justice level. "Yes Means Yes" allows women to make allegations of sexual assault or rape without reporting it to law enforcement. Instead of law enforcement handling the alleged crime, the charge is made at the college level, where the anti-male, college kangaroo courts are empowered to remove men's rights to know his accuser, the charge against him, the right to present evidence in his defense and the right to an attorney - giving the college carte blanche to expel the accused through the accusation alone. Both conservatives and progressives got behind the idea because of the dreaded "hook up culture" - even though the law was supposed to stop the entirely made up, feminist-inspired "rape culture". Fortunately, the courts have been favoring the expelled males, allowing massive law suits against the colleges on the grounds of violation of constitutional rights. This and only this forced congress to come up with a bill that forces colleges to report allegations of sexual assault and rape to law enforcement, effectively nullifying "Yes Means Yes". It's called "The Safe Campus Act". What's disturbing about the whole thing is that this "law" was allowed to proliferate mostly by anti-male males - AKA White Knights - to appease the man hating feminist demands.
Society enforced the idea of men being the providers and protectors and women being the homemakers and caregivers - NOT MEN. Women loved it when it was in their best interests for society to operate this way. Why? Because it enforced male disposability. In this golden era of "equality" you still see shaming tactics by the main stream media and religious organizations to denigrate men that protect themselves from physical assault by women or to dehumanize men that don't risk their lives for women's benefit. The idea that men are the providers and protectors of women needs to go away as does the idea that it was mainly men that came up with this paradigm. Women, throughout history, have used shaming tactics and emasculation to enforce the anti-male culture the permeates everything today. There are sites dedicated to exposing this most made up of feminist myths. One such site is gynocentrism.com.
“Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.” – Hillary Clinton
To Hilary, that men lose their lives in war isn't the cause for concern. After all - they're just men. It's women who primarily suffer. This is how white knights and feminists think. It's always about women and their imperatives - no matter how many men's lives have to be sacrificed.
There's an excellent UTube video by Spetsnaz called "The Disposable Male" that covers all this in great detail.
I'll have to check it out. I'm a big fan of Karen Straughan too...I'm assuming you know her, but if not you should watch some of her videos/speeches. I know she did one on the disposable male topic. I actually went on a date with a girl a month or two ago and she made a comment about how ridiculous it is that MRAs exist. You should have seen the face I made...haha
I'll have to check it out. I'm a big fan of Karen Straughan too...I'm assuming you know her, but if not you should watch some of her videos/speeches. I know she did one on the disposable male topic. I actually went on a date with a girl a month or two ago and she made a comment about how ridiculous it is that MRAs exist. You should have seen the face I made...haha
Karen is awesome, as is Diana Davison. Love her rape jokes. Fascinating women they are. Good people. You have good taste in women.
Did you read that because it does not support your statement.
Ah, actually, had you of bothered to scroll down to the point I said to, you would have read this:
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Three retrospective survey studies of college students found large proportions of female perpetrators reported by males who acknowledged a history of childhood sexual abuse. Fritz, Stoll and Wagner (32) administered a questionnaire to 952 male and female college students regarding sexual abuse when they were children and found that 4.8 percent of the males reported they had been molested. Of these, 60 percent were molested by females, primarily older female adolescents.
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If the vast majority of men commit a crime it is irrelevant that men are sentenced to longer terms.
It is. You are insinuating that society is somehow "anti-woman" and you talk about men committing more crimes to prove it. I site a source showing that women get 60% less time for the same crime as men, so in fact society can be said to be anti-male, at least in the criminal justice system.
I love how feminists always go on and on about how women make on average 20% less than men, but have NOTHING TO SAY about women getting 60% less time in prison than men for the same crime.
Want equal pay for equal work? Then accept equal time for equal crime.
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No that is because women are usually the custodial parent.
And that is the point! Fathers get screwed over by the courts all the time!
Fathers get screwed over by the courts all the time as custody almost always goes to the mother. I should know: I was handed to that drunken drug addicted creature who gave birth to me but who barely fed me when I was seven, and it took her giving up for me to go to my father (who was no angel, but tried at least) And he was arrested for not paying child support....FOUR MONTHS after he got custody. And the one who gave birth to me? Never paid a dime.
Yes, women are more likely to have custody. But, as I PROVED, women are more likely, proportionately, to default on child-support.
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But that is not all your saying and that is not what one reads on the MGTOW sites. No one is pressuring you to attract a girl or get laid. That is all in your head.
If you don't see men's worth as being measured by how much he can "get laid" or how "*insert vulgar term for vagina here* he gets" then you are blind.
I admit these expectations were created by men. Unlike feminists, I am more then willing to put the burden on my own gender for creating their problems. But now it is both men and women who push men into feeling like lesser beings because they do not have as much sex as other men.
Need another example? Take that comedy "The 40 year old Virgin." Would that movie had worked if the titular character was a woman? Of course not. Because female virginity and females who do not have loads of sex are celebrated while men who do not have sex are considered "losers."
Yes, I agree, the whole "men who have a lot of sex are studs but women who do so are considered sluts" is unfair, I AGREE. But why is it so hard for people to say that the opposite is also unfair? Why is it okay to say "females who don't have loads of sex are classy, but men who don't have loads of sex are losers"?
I think it's great you guys aren't marrying. Where you lose me is why you need a movement to give you permission. No one other than perhaps your mothers care what you do with your lives. Seriously.
So, again, you would say the same thing to these women?
It reads as very insecure to need validation via talking incessantly about it and needing a movement. As an outside observer I wonder ( not judging ) if there was a female who emasculated the males in this group. There seems to be almost a desperation to defend independence.
Truly, we all can be independent and remain single throughout our lives without permission or needing to explain. I guess to me it is no big deal to be single. Many of my friends never married and their lives are no less valued than if they married. We all are longtime homeowners and persue our interests, date, or not. Personally, I have enjoyed a lifetime of independence and never felt the need to explain. I would look strangely at a male, or female, who felt the need to carry on about their need to be separate from members of the opposite sex.
Ah, actually, had you of bothered to scroll down to the point I said to, you would have read this:
You should have continued reading.
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It is. You are insinuating that society is somehow "anti-woman" and you talk about men committing more crimes to prove it. I site a source showing that women get 60% less time for the same crime as men, so in fact society can be said to be anti-male, at least in the criminal justice system.
Im not insinuating anything. If this is a concern, Im not doubting its true, why not do something about it instead of whining on a message board. Do something. It still has no relevance to the fact that men commit more crimes. And Im not sure how that is relevant to this topic either. I was just saying.
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I love how feminists always go on and on about how women make on average 20% less than men, but have NOTHING TO SAY about women getting 60% less time in prison than men for the same crime.
Want equal pay for equal work? Then accept equal time for equal crime.
Again, one has nothing to do with the other. Exactly which feminists say that anyway.
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And that is the point! Fathers get screwed over by the courts all the time!
Fathers get screwed over by the courts all the time as custody almost always goes to the mother. I should know: I was handed to that drunken drug addicted creature who gave birth to me but who barely fed me when I was seven, and it took her giving up for me to go to my father (who was no angel, but tried at least) And he was arrested for not paying child support....FOUR MONTHS after he got custody. And the one who gave birth to me? Never paid a dime.
Yes, women are more likely to have custody. But, as I PROVED, women are more likely, proportionately, to default on child-support.
Men rarely petition the court for custodial custody. If you want custody be the caretaker. Mothers are the ones who generally cut their hours at work, take lower paying jobs, etc. to care for children, take them to doctors, school, do PTA, attend activities, etc. There is the starting point, be an equal parent, then be proactive and petition the court for custody. Women were once the ones screwed over by the court and they actually did something about it so stop crying and act.
If you don't see men's worth as being measured by how much he can "get laid" or how "*insert vulgar term for vagina here* he gets" then you are blind.
I admit these expectations were created by men. Unlike feminists, I am more then willing to put the burden on my own gender for creating their problems. But now it is both men and women who push men into feeling like lesser beings because they do not have as much sex as other men.
Need another example? Take that comedy "The 40 year old Virgin." Would that movie had worked if the titular character was a woman? Of course not. Because female virginity and females who do not have loads of sex are celebrated while men who do not have sex are considered "losers."
Yes, I agree, the whole "men who have a lot of sex are studs but women who do so are considered sluts" is unfair, I AGREE. But why is it so hard for people to say that the opposite is also unfair? Why is it okay to say "females who don't have loads of sex are classy, but men who don't have loads of sex are losers"?
All in your head. If you allow movies to measure your worth I just dont know what can be done for you.
You are siting US statistics - I am talking about the world. Yes, all over the world men are the rapists and the molesters. They are the majority. I am not stating women don't do it, but women raping men is not at the crisis level that it is now and has been all through history. Men rape women, men, and children.
I live in America, so I will use American statistics.
And if we are talking about globalism, you need to talk to feminists, not me.
American feminists spend about ten times the effort to whine about big boobs on digital women in video games then they do about ISIS holding REAL SEX SLAVES in Iraq and Syria. Take a look at youtube sometime if you don't believe me.
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Women are not the ones flying to Southeast Asian countries to pay to rape a 9 year old girl. That's all on men.
Child sex tourism is horrible, I agree. But most sex tourism is about people trying to sleep with adults, not children. Hardcore pedophilia is rare, for both men and women.
And if you are going to whine about men going to Rio or Thailand to hook up with bar-girls and carnival queens...
I have never, EVER, heard a feminists look at these videos, or anything related to female sex tourism, and say "that's wrong." If men do it, we never hear the end of it, but when women do it, those same SJWs who whine and whine about "equality" have nothing to say. You ever hear a despicable woman in the second video trying to BLAME THE POOR, THIRD WORLD MEN who take money for sex, and not blame the rich white women. I doubt she would say the same thing about a female bar-girl in Thailand.
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You can talk about sentencing all you want, but I am talking about percentages. Men commit more murders than women. Men commit more physical domestic violence than women.
And men get longer sentences for the same crimes, what's your point?
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I wasn't responding to you in the post you quoted, I was responding to that other guy who was talking about men being "oppressed" throughout history. When women sexually intimidate men daily and think of it as "good clean fun," when women start murdering men in the percentages that men murder women (ever hear of honor killings?), when women start using gang rape as an act of war and an intimidation tactic to control men, then we can talk about male oppression.
Several times in history, from Elizabeth of Russia to Margaret Thatcher, female rulers have ordered men to die in foreign wars, often times drafting them to fight and die...how many times have male rulers ordered women to fight and die for them?
And honor killing and the rest is in different countries. Awful, yes, but they have nothing to do with my life in the US.
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As for you, OP, I responded to you early in the thread to point out that what you are doing is nothing new - men have always gone their own way. I don't care. But before you align yourself specifically with "the MGTOW," you should look a little closer at the things they espouse about women, as has been cited on this thread (ie women can't feel love like men, women are sub human, rape of a woman should be legal if it happens in a private home that she entered or invited a man into, etc.) If you claim to have no issue with women as individuals, then you really wouldn't connect yourself with them.
And feminism today is all about hating men. I could post links to Andrea Dworkin, Mary Daly, Susan Brownmiller and even Antia Sarkesian, but you get the idea.
Oh, but they are just "a few radicals?" Well, I will allow you to think that Dworkin somehow wasn't celebrated by all of feminism if you like and say that any woman-hating in MGTOW is also just a few radicals, and doesn't speak for the majority of us.
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