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Old 01-29-2008, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
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The two principal uses for military power are external expansion and suppression of domestic insurrection. I'll bet the Chinese government is going to try to do the former and have to do the latter in a decade or so.

As far as we are concerned the expenses of maintaining our Empire has greatly exceeded the monetary returns from that Empire except for the profits of the military contractors. These Imperial costs are bankrupting the rest of our economy.

I suggest we abandon the Empire and let Russia, China and India waste their substance on a profitless attempt to dominate the world.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:38 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66nexus View Post
While that article was a good read, it undermines US influence on the global stage (even in 2016)

The US, is by far, the largest consumer of goods and its market is still tied to world markets. This, in no way means that China and a future EU wouldn't be setting their own policies as they move up the ranks, but that certainly does not translate into an insignificant US.

China's military isn't weak, but it's a far cry from the Soviet machine that once rivaled Cold-War NATO on every level of war. We shouldn't worry/wonder why their military strength is growing, we should just act accordingly by making sure our own military strength is right should we ever get involved in conflict with them
I have seen it mentioned a great deal that a weak US dollar makes our goods and products more attractive, and this is great except that we manufacture far less than we have in the past. In addition many do not take into account the rising number of middle and upper classes in China and India that are fueling their own internal markets.

Quote:
Let's take a look at China first. It has ...

Check Virtually no external debt.

Check No major exposure to the U.S. subprime collapse.

Check $1.4 trillion in reserves, which are growing by more than $1 billion per day!

Check Some of the strongest banks and financial institutions in the world as a result of its reserves.

Check 1.3 billion people who are just beginning to emerge as a consumer class.

Moreover, Beijing has committed to spending more than $700 billion on rural infrastructure projects to bring China's 800 million farmers and peasants into the 21st century. That alone is enough to keep China's growth cooking for many more years.

Now, let's take a look at India. It has ...

Check No major external debt.

Check No major exposure to the U.S. subprime crisis.

Check An estimated annual economic growth rate of 9% for 2008.

Check 1.1 billion emerging consumers, including a middle-class of 320 million.

India is now home to the largest number of billionaires in Asia ... and the number of millionaires in India is growing at a 20.5% annual rate, the second fastest in the world behind Singapore.
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,219,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
I have seen it mentioned a great deal that a weak US dollar makes our goods and products more attractive, and this is great except that we manufacture far less than we have in the past. In addition many do not take into account the rising number of middle and upper classes in China and India that are fueling their own internal markets.
And their increase of middle and upper class is great for us, really makes it less likely to get involved in military actions because their folks have a lot more to lose, or at stake.
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:55 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
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Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
And their increase of middle and upper class is great for us, really makes it less likely to get involved in military actions because their folks have a lot more to lose, or at stake.
To be honest, I don't foresee ever going to war with a nation on par with Russia, China, or even India. At least not in the traditional sense of guns and bullets, but on the other hand, I am willing to bet economic wars will potentially become much more prevalent. Dollars are far more effective than lead.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,219,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
To be honest, I don't foresee ever going to war with a nation on par with Russia, China, or even India. At least not in the traditional sense of guns and bullets, but on the other hand, I am willing to bet economic wars will potentially become much more prevalent. Dollars are far more effective than lead.
Actually, I wasn't thinking about us getting into war with China. What I meant is that it would increase the chances they would want to negotiate relationships with their fellow Asian neighbors than consider military action.

It is pretty expensive, and their fragile economic growth would probably preclude much in the way of citizen support:

Retail: Aspirational Hazard - TIME
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:14 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
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An excellent point to be sure, but China has never really been too big on the concerns of their populations needs and wants outside of eating. 70% of American favor leaving Iraq, yet we remain.

Actually, after reading a post you made some time back about Russia and China's relations, I came across an article that was discussion some of the tensions between them. I wish I would have saved it now. Even still, I see economic warfare (even if we are not involved) as taking more precedence in the future. Who knows, maybe it is a good thing as it forces nations to pay more attention.

PS. F.B.I. Opens Subprime Inquiry
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/business/30fbi.html

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has opened criminal inquiries into 14 companies as part of a wide-ranging investigation of the troubled mortgage industry, F.B.I. officials said Tuesday
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Old 01-30-2008, 05:58 AM
Noc
 
1,435 posts, read 2,069,985 times
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Good discussion

Thanks for the reply TnHilltopper. I was fearing that there was something about China I wasn't abreast about.
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Old 01-30-2008, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,219,039 times
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Even still, I see economic warfare (even if we are not involved) as taking more precedence in the future.
I know I am of a minority opinion on many international issues, both economic and military, but I see this as a positive outcome. To me, it isn't so much a matter of economic warfare as it is competition. Sure, it can get nasty and retaliatory, but in this messy process we also find significant innovation, for the betterment of everyone.
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Old 01-30-2008, 11:01 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,193,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
I know I am of a minority opinion on many international issues, both economic and military, but I see this as a positive outcome. To me, it isn't so much a matter of economic warfare as it is competition. Sure, it can get nasty and retaliatory, but in this messy process we also find significant innovation, for the betterment of everyone.
You are certainly the eternal optimist, no bout a doubt it.

Would you still feel it just competition if China started dumping dollars in favor of Euro's as a means to force a trade agreement? Or Iran and Venezuela demanding that all oil trades be paid in Euro's or a basket currency in an attempt to falter the US economy further?

In regards to China increasing their naval size, investing heavily in a variety of missile technologies, I would consider that cause for concern if I were living in Taiwan or Korea, or even Tibet.
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