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Denying him from emigrating to the USA because he said "Death to Americans" violates his free speech and in turn the free speech of all americans.
Great logic pal
Denying him from emigrating to the USA because he said, "Death to Americans," doesn't violate his free speech, he was and remains free to say it. But because he said it, he has provided evidence that he poses a threat to Americans, and on that basis he can be denied entry.
Denying someone from entering the USA because they are Islam is not the same thing, because being Muslim does not mean that you are automatically a threat to Americans. It simply means you practice a religion followed by a quarter of the planet's inhabitants.
Denying him from emigrating to the USA because he said, "Death to Americans," doesn't violate his free speech, he was and remains free to say it. But because he said it, he has provided evidence that he poses a threat to Americans, and on that basis he can be denied entry.
Denying someone from entering the USA because they are Islam is not the same thing, because being Muslim does not mean that you are automatically a threat to Americans. It simply means you practice a religion followed by a quarter of the planet's inhabitants.
Whoa....was that logic? OMG!
Saying "Death to Americans" doesn't make him automatically a threat either. It just means there is an elevated chance of him being. I'm sorry but it's exactly the same.
Point is government uses things like speech, religion, assembly, and such to keep undesirables from entering this country. As they should.
Part of "natural rights" is to allow access into your house to whomever you choose. If you don't want a muslim in your house, it's part of your "natural right" to deny him. He still has free access to practice his religion, just not in your house. It can be his house.
Sure, you have the natural right to refuse Muslims entry into your property. The same is not true of the Congress and immigration law. The issue has not come before the Supreme Court because the Congress has not yet tried such a cockamamie idea. No conception of liberty allows the government to exclude immigrants solely on the basis of religion. That path is authoritarian and bears hallmarks of the 20th century's worst offenses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm
comparing immigration law to the ACA is a non starter. first off it is unconstitutional for the government to require the purchase of anything, despite the supreme court ruling to the contrary.
as for congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise there of, that only applies to people already living here, not to people that want to come here. if they are not here yet, then constitutional protections DO NOT APPLY TO THEM.
I happen to believe in natural rights and I believe that the bill of rights places certain restrictions on the government's exercise of its power. One of those restrictions is the Free Exercise clause, stemming from the natural right to practice one's religion.
The Constitution applies to immigration law (as it does to all law passed and enforced by the United States). The people saying that the Constitution does not apply to the admission of immigrants to the United States are unwittingly applying a faint line of cases that traces back to the late 19th century exclusion of Chinese immigrants for various racist reasons. It is far from a strong precedent, and would fall like paper in the wind if Congress tried to impose a religious test on immigration.
Sure, you have the natural right to refuse Muslims entry into your property. The same is not true of the Congress and immigration law. The issue has not come before the Supreme Court because the Congress has not yet tried such a cockamamie idea. No conception of liberty allows the government to exclude immigrants solely on the basis of religion. That path is authoritarian and bears hallmarks of the 20th century's worst offenses.
Isn't part of liberty part of Americans for them to decide immigration law? What in the constitution prevents this
Just like banning someone part of a communist party [when he could easily join one in the USA under the bill of rights] or saying Death to Americans [when he could say that under the bill of rights in the USA]. Why can't we do the same for religion and people trying to emigrate?
Form a logical cohesive argument, please. So far DC ridge could not.
“A well regulated Militia” is the subject. A well regulated militia, in the minds of the framers, is necessary to “the security of a free state.” A well regulated militia is the framer’s fulfillment of “the right of the people to keep and bear arms.” And this right, to a well regulated militia, shall not be infringed. It is the right of “the people” to keep and bear arms; it is a collective reference. It does not say it is the right of individuals.
It was an established practice for communities to “keep…arms” locked up in armories until times of crisis, then handed out to volunteer fighters to “bear” in battle and return afterward. This was common–and necessary–in the 18th century and well into the 19th century (long after and in spite of the Militia Acts) because, contrary to popular belief, most Americans did not own firearms. They were costly and not manufactured in most areas. Even on the frontier, many were farmers, not hunters.
Why would anyone from outside the country have any constitutional right to come in the first place? From my standpoint, who we allow in is entirely discretionary.
On the other side, the 2nd Amendment confers a direct right to weapon (note I did not limit to gun) ownership and carriage (looking for a synonym to "bear" in this context).
You're right.
Even the ACLU acknowledges that aliens who aren't even here yet have no constitutional rights. It's also hard to believe that there are those who think that people from other countries have a right to simply enter this country without a visa. Visas which, BTW, can be restricted.
The Second (or any other) Amendment "comparison" is so ludicrous, I won't even comment on it.
Saying "Death to Americans" doesn't make him automatically a threat either. It just means there is an elevated chance of him being. I'm sorry but it's exactly the same.
Point is government uses things like speech, religion, assembly, and such to keep undesirables from entering this country. As they should.
I'm pretty sure, "Death to Americans," is a threat.
WE ARE. WE ARE AMERICANS. The laws passed by the government affect AMERICANS.
If the government passes a law discriminating against a religion, it impacts YOU. It impacts all of us. It irrevocably says that our SECULAR government thinks some religions are bad, and some are okay. Which it is not permitted to do.
A temporay pause in our refugee and immigration policy, to improve our vetting process, is not the same as passing a new law. You are just inflating and distorting this issue.
We cannot pass laws discriminating against people just for being from Japan either, but we did restrict immigration of Japanese people during WWII, for national security concerns. Trump is not even close to calling for even that. He sees flaws in or vetting process, and sees a pause as a legitimate option.
A temporay pause in our refugee and immigration policy, to improve our vetting process, is not the same as passing a new law. You are just inflating and distorting this issue.
We cannot pass laws discriminating against people just for being from Japan either, but we did restrict immigration of Japanese people during WWII, for national security concerns.
They are paid to misinform and muddy the waters. Ignore their nonsense.
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Visas which, BTW, can be restricted.
