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View Poll Results: Should Flint, MI residents pay their water bills?
Yes 8 8.00%
No 92 92.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-01-2016, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,299,763 times
Reputation: 4546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWiseWino View Post
Well that's a funny article... and I mean funny.

It begins with the gratuitous liberal swipe by stating:
Liberals are wrongly blaming Flint's lead poisoning crisis on austerity measures imposed on the city by a fiscallyconservative Republican Governor Rick Snyder, as I wrote last week. (Snyder had appointed an emergency manager in 2011 to help the city balance its books and avoid bankruptcy.) However, I didn't quite realize just how wrong they were. As it turns out, the debacle is the result of Snyder's efforts to stimulate the local economy—the exact opposite of the liberal line.
And concludes with:
And neither Snyder nor his Emergency Manager Ed Kurtz nor the state treasurer Andy Dillon had the heart to say "no," especially since to hand Flint to DWSD would have made the whole project less viable. What's more, they felt that just as Detroit was receiving an infrastructure boost post-bankruptcy (with the state-backed $650 million ice-hockey-arena-***-entertainment center that I wrote about here) it was only fair that Flint get one too....

This was a penny wise and pound foolish decision given that Flint had neither the in-house scientific expertise to assess what would be required to adequately treat the water nor the economic expertise to judge whether this made any financial sense. They expected to get all their scientific guidance from the DEQ, but the agency was clearly in over its head (and is, not unfairly, taking the fall).
So what is it, the Governor and his appointed emergency manager, and state run Depart of Environmental Quality didn't switch to save money but rather to push a "Keynesian" stimulus (using a German firm no less). Either way the decision making lays firmly in the state's lap, according to your source.

But it was nice spin.

A better source without the spin.

Flint water mystery: How was decision made?
Thanks for the info.

From your article:

But the records don't show that Snyder or Dillon decided Flint residents should drink Flint River water until their new KWA pipeline to Lake Huron was completed. There's still murkiness over exactly how that decision came about.



What is not murky is that it was the direct responsibility of the Flint Water department to treat the water. Them being under Emergency Manager is only relevant if they can show that they were going to treat the water properly and were overridden by EM. If however they screwed up, it doesn't matter if they were under the EM or under the City Mayor, they are the main responsible party. Neither the EM nor the Mayor are the experts in water treatment process.

There may well have been an attempt to hush things down / cover up by the State. But before the cover up, there was the negligent or incompetent action that caused the catastrophic problem, and it seems clear to me that it originated inside the Flint Water Department.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,850,288 times
Reputation: 4585
We'll see what the DC hearings come up with. But some info may be missing...

Ex-Flint EM Darnell Earley refuses to testify in U.S. House hearing on water crisis
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:06 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,322,500 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Thanks for the info.
No problem.

Quote:
What is not murky is that it was the direct responsibility of the Flint Water department to treat the water.
Actually the direct responsibility to insure that that the water was safe to drink was the direct responsibility of the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality. According to DEQ's Director Dan Wyant, it was his department that enforced the wrong federal standards to the Flint water department. DEQ Office of Drinking Water and Municipal Assistance staff in Flint had a staff in Flint with the specific job of overseeing Flint's water supply.

DEQ replaces water official after state acknowledges 'mistake' in Flint | MLive.com

I suspect, that the Flint water department, staffed by folks whose sole expertise is making sure that water flows through the pipes and the right mix of chemicals are added to it but depends on DEQ to tell them the hows and wherefores, either way, the DEQ following the wrong standard is just part of the total story since this only covers the issue of over chlorination of Flint's water. What it doesn't address is how DEQ could be so wrong for over a year despite complaints from Flint residents.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:22 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,322,500 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
We'll see what the DC hearings come up with. But some info may be missing...

Ex-Flint EM Darnell Earley refuses to testify in U.S. House hearing on water crisis
Apparently he has a lawyer from the same firm that advises the Oregon patriot network.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:23 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,322,500 times
Reputation: 9447
Who are the 93% who believe that Flint residents should pay for poison? I'm dying to read and explanation of that.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,998 posts, read 12,927,632 times
Reputation: 8365
^6.5%

About 10% of the human population are psychopaths-so statistically it makes sense.
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Old 02-04-2016, 06:29 PM
 
26,476 posts, read 15,060,677 times
Reputation: 14631
New news that high ranking Michigan state officials knew of a problem in an increase of sickness in Flint since last March. This is a big deal as one might logically jump to the water source quickly.


Questions to be answered:

#1 When did Governor Snyder find out there was a problem?

#2 Why did Michigan officials not bring it to the public's attention sooner?

#3 Why did the Federal government fail us? The EPA should have noticed that the water didn't get treated properly.

#4 Why did the State government fail us? The DEQ should have noticed that the water didn't get treated properly.

#5 Since the federal government (EPA) failed in noticing Flint, are they failing somewhere else in the 50 states?

#6 Did someone in Flint make the conscious choice to not add the chemical to prevent the lead from leaching out of the lead pipes (at $115 a day versus that catastrophe we have it seems like a no brainer to add it).



--Using the Flint River water was NOT the problem, not adding the proper chemical for $115 a day WAS the problem.
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:18 PM
 
7,578 posts, read 5,322,500 times
Reputation: 9447
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
#6 Did someone in Flint make the conscious choice to not add the chemical to prevent the lead from leaching out of the lead pipes (at $115 a day versus that catastrophe we have it seems like a no brainer to add it).
Believe it or not the Dept. of Environmental Quality Flint office followed the wrong standard applying anti-corrosives for a population of 50,000 not 500,000, or so the latest reports indicate.
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,238 posts, read 26,182,129 times
Reputation: 15632
Here we go again, Michigan asking for $600M.




Seeking funds for Flint, Democrats block energy bill - CNNPolitics.com
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Old 02-07-2016, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,805,850 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Honestly! When I read something like this, I know that those Republicans care more about special interests than they do the basic needs of our citizens. What good is an energy infrastructure if we don't have a potable water infrastructure?

Addressing advancement in energy infrastructure when our water infrastructure is failing is like upgrading a stereo system in a car that doesn't run.

Last edited by jojajn; 02-07-2016 at 09:16 AM..
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