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Then they shouldn't have taken them. You can tap dance around this all you want with all of your silly, blaming B.S. It doesn't change a damn thing. They agreed to the terms of the loans. If they didn't like the terms, the time to complain is BEFORE you sign on the dotted line, not AFTER. Didn't these idiots know how to add? Couldn't they see in 5 years there was no way they could afford the payments? They knew damn well they couldn't afford them, but they went ahead and signed anyway.
The market didn't go their way and they all lost their asses, because they couldn't sell as fast as the value of their homes plummeted. Too bad. They deliberately threw caution to the wind, took the risk, and didn't get the reward they had hoped. Now they're blaming everyone but themselves, and you're trying to help them do it. They is no way they ever should have inked those loans. They did so because of greed, nothing more. They ran with the sheep, and they were slaughtered. It was no one's fault but their own.
If you still have half a heart left, you should be pissed off as a citizen, on how the Bush Administration went out of their way to protect predatory lending.
Spare us all your sympathy routine. I'm not going to blame a past President, or anyone else for that matter, because a bunch of over zealous financial idiots, over borrowed to over pay for houses they had zero business buying in the first place. They applied for those loans because they wanted them. They knew the interest rates, as well as the terms. They signed on knowing what the risks were, and what they were getting themselves into. They planned on big profits that never came. Their own greed lured them into this. Not Bush. Not "predatory lending". Not "evil banks". It was their own uncontrollable, foolish greed. The end result is most of them now have destroyed credit as a direct result of their own actions. And are now living in apartments, which they never should have left in the first place.
They got loans they were not supposed to. It created a chain of events that utterly destroyed the economy.
The systems depends on the brokers to vet the borrowers
Not when Fannie and Freddie didn't want them to be vetted so they could meet HUD's Affordable Lending Goals.
Quote:
You're joking right? Ever heard of CountryWide?
Yes, let's look at Fannie's and Freddie's complicity with Countrywide, shall we?
Published by Fannie Mae Foundation in 2000:
Quote:
"...Countrywide tends to follow the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE [Affordable Lending] programs. When necessary—in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example—Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice accepted by the GSEs."
Now you know why Mozilo didn't go to jail... the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) were complicit in what Countrywide did. They TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet regular lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals (what a misnomer that turned out to be) established before 2000.
Then they shouldn't have taken them. You can tap dance around this all you want with all of your silly, blaming B.S. It doesn't change a damn thing. They agreed to the terms of the loans. If they didn't like the terms, the time to complain is BEFORE you sign on the dotted line, not AFTER. Didn't these idiots know how to add? Couldn't they see in 5 years there was no way they could afford the payments? They knew damn well they couldn't afford them, but they went ahead and signed anyway.
The market didn't go their way and they all lost their asses, because they couldn't sell as fast as the value of their homes plummeted. Too bad. They deliberately threw caution to the wind, took the risk, and didn't get the reward they had hoped. Now they're blaming everyone but themselves, and you're trying to help them do it. They is no way they ever should have inked those loans. They did so because of greed, nothing more. They ran with the sheep, and they were slaughtered. It was no one's fault but their own.
No, you are not seeing the big picture. The borrowers are just a small cog in a ginormous system, don't just focus on them, step back and look at the whole enchilada.
If it was just a bunch of irresponsible borrowers taking loans from careless lenders, it would not have crashed the world economy. It would have taken down some banks and the bubble would have popped, but it would have fell far short of a Great Recession; and it would have been a USA recession, not a world recession.
The problem is that the predatory lenders fabricated data to get the loans approved. An audit found that around 50% of the loan documents have significantly fake data. They packaged thousands of loans into mortgage backed securities and claimed everyone in there makes six-figure and have great debt to income ratio, when in reality the borrowers have no jobs and are heavily in debt.
Yes, the borrowers shouldn't have borrow what they couldn't pay, but they didn't commit fraud, the predatory lenders did. The later faked data to meet the standard requirement and from there they packaged these liars loans into MBS and using the fake data claimed the securities are solid. Fannie and Freddie bought the loans thinking they meets their standard and investors around the world bought the MBS thinking they were highly rated instrument. That's how the toxic asset spread around the world. They all got duped.
Again, the predatory lenders were the one who spread the toxicity upward (to Fannie and Freddie) and outward (to the rest of the world). It's fraud, and we know it's fraud because Bank of America paid over $16 Billions in settlement with the government.
But of course, knowing you, you blame the borrower; and the ones who actually committed fraud, you think they're blameless.
No, you are not seeing the big picture. The borrowers are just a small cog in a ginormous system, don't just focus on them, step back and look at the whole enchilada.
If it was just a bunch of irresponsible borrowers taking loans from careless lenders, it would not have crashed the world economy. It would have taken down some banks and the bubble would have popped, but it would have fell far short of a Great Recession; and it would have been a USA recession, not a world recession.
The problem is that the predatory lenders fabricated data to get the loans approved. An audit found that around 50% of the loan documents have significantly fake data. They packaged thousands of loans into mortgage backed securities and claimed everyone in there makes six-figure and have great debt to income ratio, when in reality the borrowers have no jobs and are heavily in debt.
Again, as I've already posted, the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet regular lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals established before 2000.
Show me any other mortgage financing source and MBS-issuer that needed over $2 trillion in bailouts.
Spare us all your sympathy routine. I'm not going to blame a past President, or anyone else for that matter, because a bunch of over zealous financial idiots, over borrowed to over pay for houses they had zero business buying in the first place. They applied for those loans because they wanted them. They knew the interest rates, as well as the terms. They signed on knowing what the risks were, and what they were getting themselves into. They planned on big profits that never came. Their own greed lured them into this. Not Bush. Not "predatory lending". Not "evil banks". It was their own uncontrollable, foolish greed. The end result is most of them now have destroyed credit as a direct result of their own actions. And are now living in apartments, which they never should have left in the first place.
Again, you are not seeing the big picture - the over zealous borrowers DID NOT crash the world.
If the Bush Administration hadn't stopped Splitzer's investigation in 2003, imagine what would have happened. We're talking very early in the housing bubble. If the Attorney General was allowed the freedom to do his job, he would have blown the lid off this snake-oil industry; 5 years before Lehman's demise woke the world. Think of all the lives that would have been saved.
But because of Bush, the fraud was allowed to continue another five years. But I take it that you have no problem seeing the federal government stopping a state investigation into the biggest fraud of this century?
.
Yes, the borrowers shouldn't have borrow what they couldn't pay, but they didn't commit fraud, the predatory lenders did. The later faked data to meet the standard requirement and from there they packaged these liars loans into MBS and using the fake data claimed the securities are solid. Fannie and Freddie bought the loans thinking they meets their standard and investors around the world bought the MBS thinking they were highly rated instrument. That's how the toxic asset spread around the world. They all got duped.
Oh, good grief, no.
Read what Fannie Mae itself had to say about the loans they wanted to buy and issue as (compromised but not disclosed as such to either rating agencies or investors) MBS:
Quote:
"...Countrywide tends to follow the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE [Affordable Lending] programs. When necessary—in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example—Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice accepted by the GSEs."
Now you know why Mozilo didn't go to jail... the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) were complicit in what Countrywide did. They TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet regular lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals (what a misnomer that turned out to be) established before 2000.
So according to you, Countrywide is blameless and were just following Fannie and Freddie's instructions?
Then tell me this, why did Bank of America had to pay over $16 Billions in settlement over Countrywide's mortgage fraud case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Show me any other mortgage financing source and MBS-issuer that needed over $2 trillion in bailouts.
WTF?? You said no predatory lenders needed bailout and I proved you wrong. I only had to show one that needed a bailout to completely debunk your ignorant statement, and I did.
What do you mean, "Show me any other..."?? I already showed you one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
No, that would be you.
I am beginning to admire your ability to utterly drape yourself in ignorance. Your life must be bliss.
.
Again, as I've already posted, the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet regular lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals established before 2000.
Yes they did. Fannie and Freddie lowered their standards and started buying subprime loans are not a secret. Did I say they are completely blameless? No. But I place most of the blame on the predatory lenders and the Bush administration that enabled them.
To recap, I place some of the blame on the borrowers, some on Freddie/Fannie (or rather the politicians that enabled Fannie/Freddie), and A LOT of the blame on the people I mentioned above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Show me any other mortgage financing source and MBS-issuer that needed over $2 trillion in bailouts.
Read what Fannie Mae itself had to say about the loans they wanted to buy and issue as (compromised but not disclosed as such to either rating agencies or investors) MBS:
Show me any other mortgage financing source and MBS-issuer that needed over $2 trillion in bailouts.
You don't seem to understand that even sub-prime loans have standards. If a borrow has no job, no income, no asset, and heavily in debt; he/she should NOT have gotten even a subprime loan. There is such a thing as people who don't qualify for subprime loans, you know.
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